Why so uncomfortable, clunky, complicated and "outdated"?

Bravo sir.

 

"Easy" and "mindless" are two unrelated things.

SotA should be simple to use and it should feel responsive; hence why Blizzard was mentioned. Where @Lord_Darkmoon is wrong is that he/she believes SotA can/should be like Sea of Thieves without sacrificing functionality.

While I agree it had an enormous impact on the design of the game (like the non-involving combat), the last time I played it:

• Walking around was a slog. It's delayed for each step your character takes and locked to 8 angles. In comparison, Diablo 2 has full 360 degrees with 8 angle sprites with Pathfinding... meaning you clicked once and your character would move the full distance. Even the original Diablo (while locked to 4 angles) had pathfinding. You clicked and BAM, character is moving.
• The main menu (including saving your game) is accessed through your character sheet.
• The god-awful inventory that requires you to open bags upon bags; displaying microscopic icons on barely-recognizable items and required pixel perfect precision to display the item's tooltip.
• You had to drag and drop every item for everything. You couldn't simply right-click for auto equip.
• The dialogue text was barely readable because of its horrible font.

etc...

Sure, U7 was a 1992 release (compared to 1996 Diablo and 1998 Baldur's Gate; another point-n-click that did it way better than U7) but that doesn't make it good. At best it's a "nice try".

 

I still think that it is possible to create a deep RPG experience with an immersive control mechanism and without countless lists, menus, windows, numbers and bars - similar to what is shown with Sea of Thieves.

Also maybe the bag system of Ultima 7 wasn't perfect I prefer it to the excel-list system of SotA.
And let's not talk about the dialogues... I think you know that in my opinion SotA has the worst dialogue system I have ever seen in an RPG...

 

@Gix,

The bag system wasn't even about UI, it was about gameplay. Without it, you couldn't have had items hidden beneath items or inside other items. And it was a really cool gameplay element. Describing it as only a UI element is a mistake. At any rate, organizing your inventory was up to you as a player.

I don't quite agree about the rest, either. U7 just wasn't a game designed for fast-paced gameplay. It didn't matter much that you had to go to your character sheet to save, because you weren't expected to save every minute anyway (and then reload when you messed up). Dragging to your character sheet wasn't a big problem, because you didn't switch weapons every minute either. I found the font ok. *shrug* Pagan font was ugly.

But all of these big pains you're describing I didn't even notice while playing; you only notice in comparison to more modern games that are designed around action. As Diablo is... and SotA is moreso than U7 (grind, grind, grind).

 

U7 bags were awesome.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/hemlocks-r12-feedback.17721/#post-275341

Link is some feedback of mine from a few years ago (one of the last times I gave any). Still as true today as it was back then.

 

Ultima Online is just fine... I still feel more at home when I play that than on shroud, personally I much prefer chat bubbles and OPTIONAL journals (ideally a journal for chat, combat etc... separate and movable). A fun thing would be to be able to drag windows out of the main playing window and unto my second screen, if I could only move that chat on the second screen, it would bother me MUCH less.

I think the main reason I felt more at home in UO was because of the spiritual depth and the dedication to "old school sandboks" (sorry my eks key is dead lol), just listening to the song stones and I feel the passion, the myth, the integrity... I felt the same all along, beta until EA bought the rights. I spent my time just eksploring and then going back to play the old ultimas and noticing all the easter eggs and the details and the love that went into creating UO was enough to keep me hooked on EA's servers for a looong time (maybe too long, it became absurdly wrong, hehe)

Props to portalarium for the professionalism in detailed patch notes and updates, that reminded me of Origin's ekceptional assiduity.

but... but... but...

I want moooore of ultimas... not more new world order oracle watcher kinda deal... gives me the creeps and I feel I'm dealing with corporates and not blooming artists.

 

At least I can read it without straining my eyes.

It's got everything to do with the UI. If how you control your environment is ****, so will the game's overall experience. It's not the idea of bags that's the issue, it's how they executed on it.

It doesn't have to be, it just needs to feel responsive and easy to use. U7 is neither.

So it's all okay, then? It's suddenly a good piece of software because "that stuff doesn't matter?" No!

I noticed it because I knew better as a kid... and back then I was huge on turn-based games like Civilizations and Imperialism.

Just because you didn't notice anything doesn't mean there's no problem. Playing it as the adult that I am now, the only thing that changed from my perception of the game is that beneath the foul controls and mechanics, that there's actually a decent game buried in there.

Read that list as the adult you are now (I'm assuming), and try to convince yourself that those things aren't bad... Then think about the future (SotA) and ask yourself if you really want that.

Play SotA with the bag UI and try to convince anyone else that it's good UI; people will think you're crazy.

 

@Gix,

Yes, if you don't notice the UI as burdensome, it isn't burdensome. If it doesn't matter that save is under your char sheet because you don't have to save repeatedly, it isn't burdensome, so the UI isn't a problem. UI isn't theory its practice. You may have had a horrible experience playing U7; I didn't.

 

@redfish translation: "I didn't have a problem with it, so there's no real problem."

People didn't ride cars with seat-belts before. Some people died in car crashes but others didn't. That must mean that the death traps that were the cars of that era must've had great design!

I mean, those cars polluted like crazy but it didn't matter at the time.

You will never be able to convince anyone who didn't grow up with U7 that the game had good UI.

 

@Gix,

Yes, that's how UI works. If a user finds an experience enjoyable, its an enoyable UI. We're not talking about an engineering issue; UI is art. I'm not saying you can't do better than U7, or that the U7 UI would fit SotA; just disagree with your assessment about how horrible it was.

 

We totally on opposite ends, here.

There is also art in engineering; just look at Apple products since the 2000s. With that said, it is MOST DEFINITELY an engineering issue.

 

Yet another thread, that says the samethings, over, and over again... Why do we need this?

 

Cause its what we remember the devs "used to like" or in other words "what we used to admire of the devs"... I'm all about change, hey I've pledged big on this. But even if I ask the question to myself : do I remember all I used to like in my youth, well maybe not eksaaaaktly ; maybe other people who shared D&D games with me however remember what was cool.

Maybe I'm going to break news but : this game is alot about nostalgia and what is a well bred horse... so we keep on saying those things, and I will keep on saying SIEGE PERILOUS, until someone in the dev team manages to find the solution to make it happen.

We're not here ekspecting any immediate reward or recognition... but we like what we like, and I tend to agree with Lord Darkmoon on this one.

worse thing that can happen is another thread being buried beyond page 3...

Just accept it, some people still play NES, some people still play UFO : EKSCOM, pizza tycoon, ultimas... they are a big part of this community and most often fall silent because of the passive agressive intimidation on these boards.

Let's face the truth... its a first world problem...

 

Lets ask why things that are on the planned schedule for the future arnt done yet again! weeee
@Lord_Darkmoon pretty sure Lum and other devs have quoted and said directly to you that ui improvments will be made.

 

Here I disagree with you completely... I want hotkeys so I don't need all those menu's and screens to use an item. Why should I have to sort through bags to find a map and check it quick?

As for the clunky and outdated I wholeheartedly agree with you, I am assuming the UI is completely a place holder and there's a team of people working on some kick butt cool streamlined UI... (but I doubt its coming) To be honest I think the programmers are all old school computer geeks who haven't even bothered to play any other mmog's besides UO and have no clue whats out there... at least that is how this game seems to suggest with this 20 year old UI

 

UI Improvements?

Ummm no complete replacement with a UI that reflects the year... it's 2016 for anyone stuck in the past.

If I wanted to play UO I'd go play it.

 

whatever wording makes you feel fuzzy on the inside.
reworking/replacing/improving.../shrug.
The UI currently is like debug windows and database readouts, functional, not pretty ... yet

 

I can attest to the veracity of this statement. Sometimes literally 5 minutes.

The only other one I've played is LOTRO, and only because I enjoyed being immersed in the story. The gameplay was passable, but nothing truly innovative.

I see many things going on with the mechanics that seem innovative to me. Granted since I have been somewhat out of the loop I may not realize that some things aren't really new...

 

Yes, just the skill system boggles my mind. forget the UI.... Xp pool and character levels and death taking away xp its a big F'ing mess

 

I really like that they added that. Was so "meh" to beable to throw myself at death with zero effect.
Groups just constantly raising and throwing bodies at tough situations, yay for concequences

O yea since we are compairing ANOTHER AAA game to shroud

Sea of Theives
Major game studio: Rare : owned by Microsoft
Be nice to have MS money to hire 50 artists before the game was revealed.