Upcoming Economic Balance Changes

problem here: Most mines are instances for party or solo only, so even as I login in mp (as I do 99% the times) I will "vanish" into my instance when going into a mine. But I love to show people the mines and even help them clearing out the rooms so that they have also a good share of the mined stuff. The game is to be played together, so why not make money in a party (while also making some xp the same time )

 

too late now, that model is already set, not that it is correct because we all should have started out with nothing. zero zilch. nada nothing. but that is hard to sell. so for now they have to over come this. which in time they will.

 

People shouldn't have to struggle to feed and clothe themselves.

Any less is not capitalism. They should struggle; that is their motivation for greatness.

 

I am happy the devs are on top it. The economy is the main thing that unites all players. If the economy breaks, so does the game.

As for me, nothing changes... hopefully more people will buy my stuff

 

Havent read this entire thread tbh, because Nut nailed it right off. Min/Maxers are light years ahead of everyone else. Some of it should be a benefit of early play but its a bit too lopsided atm.

Edit: Serious props to the devs. They are really focusing on making the game great right now.

 

Darkstarr,
Interesting idea's there. But most will just make the rich richer. Items don't sell because prices are out of control, people will just increase the cost of their items because people have more money. When someone makes something and can sell it for 500 gold for a nice little profit they don't, they end up charging 5000 gold just cause they can.

Increasing resources will be a welcome relief, as a crafter the current setup up is frustrating and tedious. I'm looking forward to seeing the new changes.

 

Hrmmm... if you are saying that people should struggle to have more than the basic necessities then yes, I agree.

But having to struggle for the basic necessities of life does not actually motivate people, it actually demotivates people from working to better themselves, and instead causes them to demand handouts and "wealth redistribution" schemes.

In gameplay terms... people should be able to actually play the game and progress without feeling like they have to resort to exploit-y tactics in order to keep up with everybody else.

 

RG had it right in UO, and they just went nuts with it after he was subverted all becuase of greed. and broke it. Rg needs to dig into his notes books from the good ol days. maybe there are legal issues involved. but again what isnt broken should still work, just saying.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but what does this term mean?

 

My humble opinion? I think people found the loopholes in the system. Exploited them and now we are where we are. And instead of fixing early on by rolling back, we are now here. As for the changes? I find them odd.
Make all the magic stuff cost reagents. Heck all armor and weapons take damage from a noob weapon to a master one.
As silly as it may sound put a tax system in. You get taxed for the amount of money you have.
As for people not buying stuff from vendors? What do they think would happen when everyone can do everything? Why am I going to buy ore from someone when I can go get it myself?
There needs to be a UO type skill cap. MAKE it where people have to depend on others. Then we might see more stuff selling. Also make each region have specific types of ore and trees etc, and stop the being able to teleport around everywhere. Heck with a friends list you can go where you want. Make potions more viable and cost less so people use them and it then makes a market for them. Take the ability away from the npc's to be able to repair items. Now you have a viable option for crafters to make an income. So many things could be changed to make the game more interactive and fun. I love the game, it just needs some love

 

Of course! No I get it that the scenes are instanced...

Let me put it this way... some of the things I like most about the game so far is actually meeting my neighbors in Jannaford, and also seeing other players from nearby towns like Bramble or Vanguard actually out and about... watching them come into our town, and running up and saying hello. Or seeing somebody multiple times on the overland map and wondering... who is that? Do they live around here?

Now I've also happened to meet some really cool people here on the forums, and then we meet up in game from time to time. But not everybody is in the forums either.

Does that make more sense?

 

People are rich because they play a lot and share lore and tips about the game. All of this is good, but devs would be wise to nerf the "tips", that is, the best ways to make money, (and only those!)

It is easy to find out who are the top 100 gold makers, I hope, and find out what areas they grind. Eventually finding out what exactly they do might be harder. Please do not nerf areas used by poor players, we are already struggling enough, just the ones used by 1.000.000 gp or more players... they won't really notice, I hope. In other words, devs, please cut the fat where actually is some fat, not elsewhere.

 

Is why capitalism always works better, it gives insensitive. socialism has never ever worked. unless your the one pulling the strings.

 

Here you go Shroud community! Ive had some wine!

Step#1 - When you are trying to build a character, turn off all of your skills. Save up a bank of experience. Then turn on your most important skill. Probably your combat skill. Train it on a gustball at the end of the night.
Step#2- Repeat.
Step#3- Do this until you have your major skills down.
Step#4- Finish out the rest of your skills.

After your character is of decent skills, gold wont be a problem.

 

is true.

 

But capitalism vs. socialism is kind of a false dichotomy, and one that (in my opinion) ends up ultimately benefiting those who are "pulling the strings" in either situation.

Capitalism works better in a lot of ways. But it doesn't actually produce a happier, healthier society. It produces exactly the sort of things that the everybody is ostensibly trying to avoid with this game: A lot of "daily grinding" which results in very little time left to actually enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Capitalism is great... up until the point were human beings are basically told to go f- themselves and die in the streets because they do not "deserve" to have food, clothing and shelter unless they are willing to go work their knuckles to the bone for some corporate fatcat who earns more in a day than they could ever earn in an entire year.

Look... I have plenty of COTOs and also pledge rewards coming out of my bazoomba that I could sell and probably have a million gold. But for me, to do that would actually kind of ruin the game and so I resist the urge to just insta-rich myself in the game.

I actually want to play the game, and I actually want to play my character within the game, who is a humble Druidess from South Paladis that happened to inherit some property. She's picked up some basic magic along the way... but she's not going to be summoning elementals any time soon. She's learned a few tricks in the kitchen, and can even whip up a few potions and scrolls... but she is not going to be a Grandmaster Enchantress before Episode 1. Maybe... by Episode 4.

So anyway, that might just give a little more context to my comments here or elsewhere if I am saying things like "help the poor residents of Jaanaford" it's not because I am actually thinking about leaving the game (after all I just doubled down on my pledge at the last telethon)... but the reality of the situation is that I am subsidizing my basic gameplay with COTOs and that's not really how I am assuming the game is meant to be played.

I can't actually make any money with food, potions, or scrolls right now. So I definitely don't need to be burning through reagents while I'm trying to test the waters in a 3-skull zone for the first time, or to have to spend X hours a week watering my garden to grow regs that I can't afford to buy....

Do you see what I mean?

 

Is this including POTs? When I watched the hangout video it appeared that this might be in question.

Please tell me that POTs have not been reduced to some kind of second class areas of the game.

 

Jaanelle, I agree for the most part. but in context of real life Capitalism is but a facade of things to come, but socialism is doomed from the beginning. the only time Capitalism fails when people fail to stand on principles. = Crony capitalism

 

There will always be a best way to make money, and we (the 1%) will find it and use it whatever it is every time its changed. Continuously nerfing it only breeds distrust of sharing the information, which has already happened to some degree. And stop trying to suggest we are abusing mechanics or exploiting I run around in circles killing the same 20 or so mobs and sell to the same vendor that I walk half way across the world to get to 120LBS overweight twice an hour for up to 12 hours if I'm really motivated...you're free to do the same.

Like the discussion of skill advancement rates and returns today on the stream, the ramifications of being afraid of characters of players who have significant time to invest advancing their character(s) becoming very strong\rich because of having PVP in your game is one of the things that really frustrates me (and why I don't like PVP, it inevitably robs me of the long term never ending meaningful advancement game I want to play..and it seems SOTA is going to be no different sadly).

There is no way to enrich only the poor, anything a level 1 can kill 1 of I can kill 20 of just as quick if the supply is high enough,and I will do it all day on the weekend and 6 hours a night on a work day.

If the best way to make money is to blast mobs in a 1 skull zone, thats what Ill be doing if I need gold badly. Right now its a 4 skull zone because it pays better than any 5 skull zone (lack of reward isn't an exclusively low tier issue, as I say, making max rate gold isn't interesting or challenging, anything thats remotely interesting or challenging in the game doesn't generate acceptable rates of gold). Thats not to say you can't make a living just leveling, though the mobs are pretty green, I've been leveling a second melee tree in deep ravenswood the last few nights pulling in 20k a night..without trying to make money at all. I would love to have a proper 6 skull area to play in, but the mobs go from 350HP to 1000HP and hits for 50/a shot literally in one room in areas like brittany sewer. And they drop crap for the effort/time. Again Portalarium is afraid to let my skills to kill mobs advance at a good clip, but not the higher level mobs.....Lets not even talk about what they put in the Rise.

Trying to tie the fix to a level 10 character not having gold to one time events or low return events is futile, especially at the pittances that are being discussed. Daily quests are a great idea but they need to be numerous (and time consuming perhaps) and scale to the characters level (at least for awhile, like the proposed oracle quest if it returns 500g for 10min travel/work I'm not going to do it, I can make a better rate on my own, but a lower level character can't). Everyone hates to hear it, but this is another thing WOW got right, daily quests that were both (generally) interesting and rewarding and not trivial time wise usually.

As for cash hording, as I've said before..if you make it I will buy it if the price is fair and I can find it. I gave Sara Dreygon 35k for a +12 sword and was glad to do it...as it turned out, I had done it before for my existing sword and will again the next time she's selling something I need. You'd have to ask her what she did with that gold. I gave another player about 40k for 2 pieces of +4 chainmail, something I've been looking for since R32 released that NO ONE sells. I refuse to give him 15k for a +2 to round out my set, you want my gold you make and sell the product I want for a fair price, I probably would buy it at half that price and not think twice.

And I'm done combing Novia trying to find your vendor, build a reputation or advertise, but the first time you claim to be an uber (whatever) and I find junk on your vendor after running from Graff to Aerie I'll never be back. This game badly needs a regional/global search for player vendors, there is no way in hell I'm stopping at every PRT/POT between even Graff and Brittany to search dealers even if the town crier listed the entire time and thats only what? 1/5 the world. Why would I ever look for another swordsmith now that I know where Sara Dreygon has vendors for products I want/need...I won't...the only way it would happen would be if global search found someone undercutting her or some other way I found out about it.

And yes trickle down does work, during the weekend after R33 when gold dried up I spent nothing..NOTHING that I didnt have to to keep playing..all if it went to NPCS for repair kits and reagents, I had over 60k gold when R33 dropped because I knew it was coming. As soon as they fixed the vendors I spent all of it on player vendors for things I could use but didn't strictly have to have (including working up to 100k and buying my second expert crafting table) and then made the 50k back in a day or so and its been pretty much over that since buying whenever something caught my eye for a fair price.

 

For sure! Well that gets back to my original entry into this thread... is the reason for the disparity because the "rich" players simply have more gold than they know what to do with? Or is it because a secondary (or tertiary) economy has been evolved within the game?

@Evilgamer suggested a little bit of both, which is certainly reasonable. If it is both, then I would suggest a set of solutions be implemented to address each component.

For the latter... that would be the gameplay equivalent of "crony capitalism"... it's not that those players are "bad people" in any way.. it actually means they are smart players, who have figured out a way to gain wealth within the game despite the fact that the economy is horribly broken.