The Glass is Half Empty - A look inside why people are opposed to Open PvP and Full Loot

Hmmm might kinda sound twisted, but the anger and negative attitude draws me to the dog eat dog world of full loot anyone can attack anyone outside the guard protection. When people kill me while im out resource gathering and stuff(since i mostly resource gather, im horrible at PvP but VERY drawn to the dog eat dog full loot PvP world) I sit there and curse them out and throw every obscenity I can think of at them when I see them in town or something! Its a very negative and angry feeling... yet at the same time im just so drawn to that sort of thing, dunno why. I guess the main thing I like about the dog eat dog free for all world is that it allows me to loot any corpse I want, carve people up, give em the raspberries when they say "hey thats my loot!!". Yea its full of ANGER and NEGATIVE ATTITUDES.... But boy do I LOVE IT!!!
Its such a blast to drop trapped boxes in certain places and watch people open them, blow up and die, then I stealth up there pick em clean and take off! >=-P

 

Couldnt there also be a PvE "high risk zone" that could compete with the PvP high risk zone? Imagine two ways to get a super rare item, go to a dungeon packed full of really really challenging spawn, or go into a PvP zone.

 

Andi this happened because WoW was gear based and had the carrot on the stick motivation theme to it.
I hope for SotA to be more sandbox like, with the attempt to simulate an online world. There certainly will be other issues here aswell.

But please people, don't expect everyone to be able to do anything without putting an effort into it... It's harder to lose in a video game nowadays, than to win it. And I thought I was promised we're going in a different direction than total casualization of video games that all main stream MMOs are going.

To make another point again... high value resources can be obtained also via trade. And if I don't want to compete over those resources vs other players directly, then I compete with other players on the market with my PVE earned money. Or do you also want NPC vendors that just sell you the stuff at a fixed price?...

 

I never played WoW. And I never said anything about giving things away for free without a challenge... My points of criticism were different, but I don't want to repeat myself all the time...

 

1680 Posts is how.... Around here, you are PvP Boi!

To address a couple of other posts above:

Risk vs. Reward is great! However! Risk created by other players as opposed to the environment appears to be quite unpopular. There is far more evidence of this in the gaming community than not, most all games designed today bear this out. People don't like being the victims of other people, but they accept it from the game itself. Psychology or whatever, but it's a pretty well supported convention.

I don't remember hearing this and if it's true, then I'm fine with that. I'll reserve my judgement until alpha, but I'll continue to argue my position!

 

What I see here is more PvP people trying to find ways to force PvE people to become their sheep. Sorry, I don't buy the idea that there must be items only PvP people can get on their own. It's just a scam to make sure the PvP crowd has more targets. But it is just my opinion.

 

A sheep stays a sheep... and I think most of the people here are trying to find a balanced solution. Fundamental opposition to get out of confortzone isn't very helpful either.

 

Just for the record my avoidance of PvP has nothing to do with comfort zones (I am a Major World of Tanks player which is nothing but PvP)
it has to do with my own preferences in CRPG play.

 

It really has nothing to do with risk vs reward. This may exist as a very tactical balance, but focusing on this misses the purpose and bigger picture.

This will not be a world at peace with one benevolent leader and a few bad guys hiding underground. There will be kingdoms at war. That war may be about truth vs love vs courage, or elves vs kobolds, or magic vs technology or something else entirely, but it will exist. And there may be smaller factions within this involving guilds and / or city states.

As a result of this ongoing war, territory will change hands. And the territory will be meaningful. This may include a village with a tax base. This may include a large mine or some other important access to resources. This may include some important trade route. But it will be something that is valuable and important to all players, whether they chose to actively engage in PvP or not.

We have no idea how this will work, other than it is unlikely in the extreme that players will be stuck to one faction or another. Perhaps it will be an arc of the main story to work with all of them. As a result of your alignment, even if temporary, you will be pushed into the conflict. You will have choices not to fight other players, but this may limit you options into helping your side. Whether you actively engage in combat, avoid the combat, or simply log out is irreverent.

 

I'm hoping for an online world here, unforgiving and without restrictions that break logic or economy and the handholding that has become common in modern games.
That beeing said I feel both worlds should have their place here: The Roleplayer, PVEr who have their safe areas and homes, the thieves to steal and scam and the PKs to wreak havoc but have to live with the consequences of their doing.

We need a world, it needs rules - which are to be determined and discussed. One party wanting everything their way won't work in the end. But PVErs have to accept they can't get everything, PKs that they can't kill everything and me as a thief im somewhere in the middle... But I have to accept that your house will be safe I guess and before I hear otherwise the latent fear of my thieving not beeing implemented in the game

 

Umm Vallo......you missed the point. RPers and PvEers are not in a "Safe" world, we just prefer a different Danger, I prefer AI danger to some biological being who may have a more "personal" or "antagonistic" flavor.

Seriously people need to get over the idea that PvE is safe. Remember there has not ALWAYS been PvP in crpg's in actuality PvP is still relatively new. (remembering computer games go back to 1978 or perhaps a bit earlier)

 

I meant safe from players. Indeed I hope the PVE to be challenging aswell, but if you let AI be as badass as some players are... then why not play against them afterall.

 

The first games I played were pong, combat, and outlaw which are all PVP.
And since then I've been looking for more PVP.
UO had the greatest PVP since there were so many ways to mess with the other player.
This is what I want more of.

 

None of those games were CRPG, sports games, racing games, chess, checkers, backgamon are all PvP, However CRPG PvP is a different animal all together.
I didnt like Pong either I thought it was pretty stupid. I didn't start liking computer games till I wrote my own Star Trek game in COBOL on an IB< 360/370

 

PVP games have always been my favorite.
I want to team or battle with players. Please give us a UO 2 mode please.

 

Says you.

 

One, in contexts to my post you do not, in fact, have a negative attiude about PvP as you have stated you love it. Loving something is positive. People who love that sort of thing will already be PvPing. My entire point and post was about the idea of enticing and encourating people who don't normally PvP into a PvP setting. I'm glad you and others love it. Many don't. If you want those who don't love it to come and play and try it you have to make it fun for them.

Because NPC's never get personal pleasure or become frustrated (or any other emotions) during interactions of a combat nature with PCs. The idea of killing someone else's character, upseting someone, or having someone come after you who has emotions attached and could be doing so for the 'joy' of ruining (an knowingly runing) your gaming fun is different and for some people that is uncomfortalbe and not fun. It is a game. Why not lethe AI be "badass" as you say and give a wider variety of challenge for all players?

 

PvE is NOT dangerous because it is almost completely predictable and always the same. Mobs aren't going to "scheme" against you to take your stuff or to beat you to a goal. PvE "danger" is an oxymoron by definition, danger is not predictable and patternable, maybe boring danger is..


It was incredibly obvious that the devs were talking about "danger" from other players. I love that you think PvPers are "scamming" to get more PvP content, hilariously ridiculous. Maybe instead we are just pushing for an aspect of the game that we like? Ever think that we may legitimately want this type of PvP? I mean seriously wtf is this "scam" theory of yours?

 

Who is against that? I think its pretty obvious that there will be PvE specific rewards. We all have access to all the content, BEACAUSE WE CAN BUY IT FROM OTHERS. I don't understand what part of this people arent understanding.


@Mystic if people are playing with friends, it IN NO WAY limits their ability to buy from people. We know for a fact that 1, player vendors are in and 2, local markets are in and 3, anyone connected online will have access to both and 4, if you are playing with friends you are connected and able to buy/sell.



THERE WILL OBVIOUSLY BE PVE SPECIFIC ITEMS THAT PVPERS MUST BUY FROM ADVENTURERS IF THEY WANT THEM, so why so much flat out crying for a HANDFUL of items/resources that would be tied to PvP situations? IT DOESN'T FORCE YOU TO PVP IF YOU CAN CHOSE TO BUY IT INSTEAD.


Sorry for the caps its getting very frustrating driving the same points home to the same people over and over, just to have them not address your points and go off on their own tangents about PvPers just "wanting more targets", which, btw, DUH we want more targets that is what "open world" pvp IS. Probably not going to post anymore since this convorsation is going nowhere. I'm just glad that RG knows the value of open world conflict, since almost none of you do.

 

I think it has something to do with the way people harrass the crap out of others and grief people with the stated goal that they want to make others quit. I'm not saying all PvPers are and in fact I'm on the more PvP favorable end of the spectrum as a PvPer myself. Although having survived Asherons Call on Darktide, Darkfall Online, Shadowbane and several other hardcore PvP games... people do some nasty stuff to each other. I can understand why some folks take a wide path around PvP, but I think this game will be much different in that it's more of a 'build your own experience' system than others.