Population Concerns

well.. one bit of good news (although I have not read about specifics from an official source) is the ban hammer has apparently been falling. My understanding is there were something like 200 bans in the last few days... most of which were apparently from unattended macroing. Equally interesting was the news that with the bans... 1/2.. wait let me spell that out ONE HALF of the gold in the economy was removed.

One thing I have found interesting in perusing this thread is so little mention of the economy cuz.. well you know.. it's broken. Of course it got that way early on due to various 'sploits...
this has been.. in my opinion.. one factor that has negatively influenced the game. It went on.. unchecked for so long and in turn gave ridiculous economic advantage to the few.

I think another issue is the denial: I mean face it people... we DO have a population issue. My gut feeling on this was substantiated recently when I looked at a couple graphs (iirc somebody posted one *somewhere* in these forums as well as on on reddit the other day) showing population trends.

I have yet to see a real problem solved by pretending it does not exist. Perhaps we need to (as a group) figure out how to be less insular. There have been a number of posts basically saying "gee my guild is fat and happy" well that is nice...BUT... the 20 or 30 people (just an arbitrary # I pulled out of the air) you SEE playing are gonna be lonely when the only place to play will be the forums discussing the history of the fall of Sota.

Lest that sound like just random rambling complaints... let me offer a suggestion. @Berek how about adding a LFG tab to discourse.. oh and MAKE IT KNOWN across our various social channels that we have such an animal and see if that might not promote more interactivity?

 

The problem is that it would be taking people out of game to use it. Not all of us use it, and having to hop out of game to find a group is still an issue. So much of our current design pushes people out of game (like watching something else waiting to finish the gathering timers) or having to use a 3rd party site for our maps or having our only global chat being a 3rd party program. I'm not advocating a global chat (I personally don't like them), and your idea is great as a stopgap for the people that use it, but for those of us in game that aren't using it or aware of it (especially people new to the game)...

Unfortunately, I don't have a better solution to offer at this time as most of those have been shot down repeatedly.

Was curious where you heard this. It would be nice to know that devs are banning bots, but I'd like to know the source (especially in regards to that gold purging).

 

Yes, yes we do. 8^)

 

The LFG on Discord is a great idea, we can definitely do that!

 

aye.. it does pull one out.. for a moment.. idk was kinda remembering the Diablo "staging" area

I met a lot of ppl doing PUG's

 

Agreed. PUGs are my bread and butter in most multiplayer games and a great way to meet people. Just wish we had a way in game to arrange it. Heck, many of the friends I have here are either people I met in chat or during a random run by healing (either receiving or giving, boy how I miss those). So definitely not knocking it.

 

I also wouldn't mind having bigger groups possible. Sometimes when we are doing a control point people passing through Eastreach Gap want to join and we have to say no because our group is full. I always am wishing for bigger groups. This is a fun group past time imo in the game. It gives everyone a chance to refresh in their minds group play, like how to be there for the group and help the group and team play things, plus a time to raise skills and practice combat to test it out. There is no pressure to have to be in a group, I don't want forced grouping, and I like to do my own things as well, but the group dynamic is really fun in control points in this game. As the waves of monsters deplete, doors open up with chests for everyone to grab rewards out of. I noticed the chests and door are broken recently, I do hope they fix this soon. @Berek @DarkStarr so this is a wish for bigger grouping (not forced grouping) and to fix the doors in control points . Still if some do not know of this, just to let you know it is out there.

 

Sry but grouping size changes arent the problem. The problem is lack of any sandbox content besides the stuff we payed for.

 

I am starting to feel like playing SotA means you have to be a glutton for punishment. I like throwbacks and all, but now I'm really sad we didn't get a modern MMO with an RG/TH story.

 

Have they used another term? Beta? Ver 1.0? Final Release? LOL
I didn't realise that not mentioning Alpha in every release automagically elevated the state of production.

LCD is about right. This game, I believe, isn't being designed for the casual gamer that moves from one game to next, is playing 4 to 6 games at the same time, or has a short attention span and spends very little time on one game and can't be bothered to learn new controls to play a game. From an economic standpoint you are correct, they won't garner as much money up front. But, for long-time players, those that spend years playing games like this, they will recoup their money over and over again. If they had've taken the approach to building this game in the manner you describe I most likely woudn't be playing this game right now, as it would be just another boiler-plate game that differs only in aesthetics. You have a different vision of what the game should be than I, and thats fine. To each their own.

Totally agree...writing a manual right now would be an ongoing endeavor, which would call for constant rewrites. Although there is one anyway. Describes the use of Glyphs, Decks,etc.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z-svq1OvcZwViqGxFCKdjH3NCn2LTfLuGny5qaAqjTM/pub#

 

Darkstarr has mentioned they are working on bigger groups. I think it was in one of the last couple hangouts. Possibly raid groups even.

 

What is wrong with playing more than one game or switching games?
How would the gaming industry look like if there would only be a handful of games? Where would the innovation be? Where would new ideas go?
How boring would it be if there would not be a broad selection if different games to choose from?
How boring would it be to only eat bananas over and over again? I am glad to be able to sometimes eat an apple or an orange or strawberries...

 

It was also a great idea yesterday when you suggested it to me when I asked you about adding an LFG channel in the forums.

 

They have completely switched to the term Early Access. I think (at least in part) this is because it's a requirement of being on the Steam system at this stage of development. AFAIK, they can't use terms like Alpha/Beta. Besides that, though, I think the rescheduling of release dates that aren't way out is more telling what stage they feel the game is at. I believe they're jumping immediately into (or trying to jump into) the standard MMO post-release dev cycle where you are just constantly adding features and content.

I consider myself a casual gamer. I don't play a ton of things at one time. On the contrary, I focus on one, maybe two things, and that depends on what my friends are doing, usually, and if I am 'investigating' mechanics in a mobile game.

The issue, I think, is that if you are a niche title, and especially if you have no subscription, you are constantly in fundraising mode. That's where being a niche is going to bite development in the rear. While retention might be higher, it's still not going to be forever, and it pulls from a smaller pool. The player may not spend any more money and could, by some measurement, recoup their money. In that case, though, the company doesn't have an incoming flow from them. Unfortunately, part of the foundation for SotA is based on old-school ideas, and the pool that draws from probably doesn't grow.

I think a game that was a boiler-plate foundation with an RG/TH story and a general flavor that pushes the virtues and right/wrong/gray area would do well. Maybe it wouldn't be as interesting to some of the people here, and they'd not have participated (as you note), but I think there would be a larger pool to replace them. There certainly would be a trade-off.

At this point it's just speculation. I don't think anything drastic is changing. We could argue about subscriptions and one-time pledges and Add-on store multiplied with a niche pool, etc. I just hope that the funding stays strong for a decade... or even rivals UO's 19 years.

 

I beg to differ via two points: (1) The game hasn't been radically changing for some time and, (2) Even if the combat did change, having the "how to" text boxes built in wouldn't matter if things changed; you'd just update the text.

It's about having the full experience built in, with a view to changing it if necessary... not having the game plod along for years then say, "A tutorial? Gosh, what a good idea..." That sort of thing looks so amateur hour it's not even funny.

We, as the game buying public are always being told by the industry (and even by our peers), "You aren't a developer..." yet when we can see what's needed apparently more clearly than people making the games it really makes you think...

 

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm staggered by the number of people who say they aren't using multiplayer... and don't seem to realise they're contributing to the "this game is dead" vibe that's going around.

So it sort of goes beyond denial... it's kind of like people don't even get what their actions are contributing to, on a wider scale. Maybe they all think "someone else" will take care of the multiplayer issue for them...

 

They really should tell us what kind of demographic they want to cater to. They took the money from UO and U7 crowd but never delivered for them. Right now the only ones happy are the Roleplay politicians from old UO times, which were in the minority back then, but always very close the some of the devs...

If they honestly say they only want Roleplayers, I think it would make things easier and people can lay this game to rest and the remaining RPers can dwell in peace... If they want the MMORPG crowd they should start delivering some Multiplayer worthy content. But continuing to "dont lawyer me bro" evasive talk will make things worse. Look anywhere outside of these forums... the game tanks and people are flocking hating on the game and their decision to buy it.
Right now having any media attention always turns into a comment roast... Only thing you can do to get out of it is address the issues people are having with the game - like lack of sandbox.
If they manage to reduce the criticism to the usual "GFX suck dude" crowd we are safe... Hope is with R35 and R36 till the end of the year, but I wonder if the point of no return (return of players ) has already been passed.

 

Yes, the perception has long been -- and continues to be -- that the devs are listening the most intently to a very small group of people with very specific needs and wants. As to why... money, friendships, whatever, I have no idea.

The problem with that is, a niche group of people with specific needs and wants, are going to drive the game into areas that don't have mass appeal. And I don't mean AAA top of the charts mass appeal; simply appeal to its core demographic.

And why is that a problem? Because while they might be able to say, "Yay, I got the game I wanted..." they don't seem to realise the game they wanted won't have mass appeal (even in its niche), and as a result, won't last that long.

Congrats to those people.

 

you all do know one of the reasons why my friends and I play this game is for the choice not to play this game with any of you. I will throw money at this thing every telethon like some drunk visiting out of state business dude in a strip joint to make sure this continues. The choice is everything.

 

This raises a good point. Alongside the traditional chorus of "This game is still pre-alpha don't judge plz" I have noticed a growing trend of people saying "This is a niche game so it's probably not for you!" (a fairly subtle way of basically telling people to go away if they don't like something)

I'd love to know who the target audience is supposed to be because at this point I've no idea.