Thread locking and deleting

This makes me cringe. Kek is an egyptian god in the same line of lore like the ankh is. If you say it is hate speech, you can remove the ankh as well.
Pepe and kek are year old gamer memes. Just because far left extremist, who in the line of history killed more people than National Socialists (Nazis) but they decide now what we are allowed to say?

Context matters people. If you can see anything a DoD member said that was racist... call em out. But defining someone as Nazi by proxy is what is ridiculous and people stop voting left parties because of that. I actually read that blog of Vallo's, and if it is true and he has screenshots of it - I hope he reveals the people trying to bully others here systematically.

 

No, i'm not saying it to justify their behavior, I'm trying to help you understand that they love/loved the idea of this game just as much as you do/did. What I'm trying to tell you is that this is how they express their displeasure after it has grown and grown and grown for almost 4 years now and been ignored over and over again when they DID voice it in a much more civil way. It doesn't make it right or justifiable, it's just representative of their satisfaction, or lack thereof, of the product they bought.

Are people not allowed to be disappointed? But the good news is: Lesson learned, Portalarium won't be getting any more money from me, or a lot of others that left the game. You better hope that somehow they pull in enough new players with deep pockets to fund Ep2 right?

My Episode 1 pledge totals : close to $7k
My Episode 2 projected pledge totals: 0

 

alt

 

Let's not call each other out here as examples please.

 

I dont see any moderation on people who are just reporting "some" disappointment.

 

You are right, at this point, it is not just 'some' disappointment, its more like 'extreme' disappointment. That, and the fact that they've lost so so many backers doesn't bother you in the least?

 

I don't think the poster you are replying to has any intention on discussing the issue. His purpose in this thread is just to derail, offend and get the thread locked. No point engaging him @Grumpy.

He's just attacking a straw man.

 

Good Point!

and besides, like Vallo, i'm done here in the forums for sure, and am only half a step away from being done with the game as well.

I guess that should make everyone happy that one more (significant pledger who could/would have done more in the future) is gone.

I guess when all of the dissatisfied people leave, there will be nothing but positive posts in the forums, proof positive of the game's longevity and success right?

 

And just to bring everything back into focus,

OP's points:

• is that moderation is important in forums
• Negative criticism can be useful, excessive positive comments can be detrimental to the success of the game
• People who criticize can also be people who care about the game.
• Finally is there a better way to ensure, in some of our opinion, fairer moderation on this forums?

discuss

 

What i'm recognizing:

Some people are too passionate, too ambitious, too much striving, pushing, wanting, impatient and greedy for the "legend" of their own.

If you cannot have fun anymore, quit!!!

Simple as that, no need for such Drama.
Nevertheless if you put thousands of Dollars or hours into it.

It's a game not your life!
Maybe some people take it all too serious and the game is more important than everything else in their lifes?
Then it's maybe good the get to an edge what they are allways seem to are striving and fighting for and begin to understand that their expectations are the source of their suffering.

 

I will pay 5000 gold coins to anyone who can come up with a good example of 'negative criticism' and then describing how it is somehow more useful (towards improving the game) than non-negative criticism.

 

While I may not always agree with the moderation decisions on this forum - moderating this forum isn't my job and based on some of the stuff I've seen on this boards, its not a job I'd want!
I think Berek & whoever else is responsible here are doing the best they can to try and keep this a civil place, with people on both sides shouting favoritism etc. when their stuff gets locked/moved/deleted.

The self-control they must have, to not just banhammer all the whiners, is beyond my comprehension.

Negative Criticism is a necessary part of the process. If we all just got on here and said "yeah its all great" then nothing would ever improve.
"If you accept crap, then crap is all you're ever going to get."

That being said, there are constructive and non-constructive ways to go about it. Saying "its all crap" is not productive. Explaining why its crap and offering suggestions on how it could be less so, is better.

 

If there is something on which everyone agrees : This is a truly delicate thing to discuss.

A mistake many people from both "sides" make here (and I am part of these people, quite often) is to act as they can speak in the place of others :

or

. Even if you are partialy right, keep in mind that it's simplistic to reduce a debate with two camps, like you do.

As an exemple :
@Lord_Darkmoon don't have the exact same vision of the developpment as @Vallo Frostbane @Grumpy or @Canterbury
As for myself, I don't always agree with @2112Starman , far from it.
Everyone has an opinion. It's needless to rely on an army to pass your own idea, if it's right.


About moderation now, some seem to complain about favoritism. This is a serious concern. Here, we heard of people who were not moderated despite disrespectful words when some others have been moderated for much less than that. This may be wrong but it looks like it's a shared feeling among some people here. This will taint moderation credibility even if it's untrue. So, @Berek maybe you should investigate this ? Already, did someone report these unpunished rules violations ?

On another side, some should begin to understand that the one who shouts the strongest is not necessarily right. What some call constructive criticisms are often a repetition of the same argument, a continual contempt or, sometimes, someone trying to impose its own opinion. That is ranting.

Contrary to what some have said, I never heard anyone saying that the game is perfect as it is. I'm enthusiastic about this game but I have issues with taxes and death decay as they are for exemple and I have never been moderated when disagreeing with those. Also, I would like guild wars, more dynamic content (sandbox), more "staging" for quests but they are concentrating on new user experience and that's fine.

In the context of crowdfunded developpment, choices have to be made. Maybe some of these choices displease you personaly and it's clearly understandable. But that does not mean that Portalarium is not trying to keep its promises. And yet, that's what they are blamed for constantly.

You should try to create something big without having a small idea of your budget to understand their situation. You have to be realistic : sure, they are not victims (they reached $ 11 millions) but they do their job.

 

Here's an example:

Based on wiki:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_criticism

A positive criticism draws attention to a good or positive aspect of something that is being ignored, disregarded or overlooked.

Negative criticism means voicing an objection to something, only with the purpose of showing that it is wrong, false, mistaken, nonsensical, objectionable, or disreputable.

Negative criticism:
"XXX skill is overpowered and dealing too much damage. Please investigate"

That's a simple concise negative criticism pointing out a fault and requiring the developers attention. The developers will then investigate and see if balance is needed.

In this situation, an alternative suggestion isn't required because devs will probably have more accurate metrics on how balanced that skill is and how best to correct this if needed. Concise and to the point.

Do I get 5000g?

 

I think thats wrong and contraproductive to the devs.
Constructive criticism it is what is needed.
To just criticise and see things pure negative without any idea is wrong.

You dont have to accept anyway.
You can criticise it in a constructive way or you just move on doing something else.
People here who are too passionate seem to be emotionally fixed on their private wishes and know it often all the best.

This!

I agree, but this is more constructive than negative to me.
But if a wiki say so, maybe i am wrong

For me it's a game, until i have fun, i play.
If things turn into stress or feel like work and a competition or i am just more dissatisfied with things than satisfied i stop doing it.
Maybe people should just ask themself if it's worth their time, money, thoughts...
And if they are not betraying themself for a long time because of too high expectations.

I never pledge something with more money what i cannot waste.
All my investment, around 1000 Euro, was done when i was satisfied and happy with what i saw and what i have fun with.
I dont regret a cent i donated.
I came here with less expectations, found a great environment and invested in my fun using it. Way too much for game, but well i often do things that are more based on emotions than rational.
I think people just are too much emotionally involved and had to high expectations.
If we would talk about "real love"
They would donate money and expect nothing. That's of course totally irrational when we talk about a game and therefore we talk about Passion and adherence, what can be positive and negative and easily turn from one into another.

May some get to the point where they get over it about this game.
So gratulation, stay firm, everything else will maybe turn out into hate and thats what nobody needs.
Try to find something else you can positively be passionate about and try to love it without expectations.

To want to build your own legend @Vallo Frostbane - I talk about the video "the legend of Vallo Frostbane" are maybe to high expectations in yourself and the game what is maybe not made for just one to be a legend.

If we all would want to be legends or rich and the best, the better, the outstanding what would the world or just the game become?
A sad place.

I am just practicing until to be calm and i shouldnt have write this as it is the opposite of beeing calm.

"If a man crosses a river
and an empty boat collides with his own skiff,
Even though he be bad tempered man
He will not become very angry.
But if he sees a man in the boat,
He will shout at him to steer clear.
If the shout is not heard, he will shout again, and yet again, and begin cursing.
And all because someone is in the boat.
Yet if the boat were empty,
He would not be shouting, and not angry.
If you can empty your own boat
Crossing the river of the world,
No one will oppose you,
No one will seek to harm you"
Zhuangzi

People who strive too much and want to be more or want others or things to be more are always turn the "world" into a more sad place.

Watch some "Leaders" of the world in the past, the present and sure in the Future.
They just wanted to make things better.

From their perspective.
It's an exxagerated comparison of course but the principles are exactly the same.
Get over it and have fun playing.

And dont pledge too much

 

The negative example I gave:

• only talked about what's wrong (hence negative)
• didn't sandwich the criticism with praise
• didn't offer an alternative improvement

Those are all characteristics negative criticism.

That's why I agree with the OP's point that negative criticism/feedback can be useful.

Most bug reports are phrased in a negative way. You don't hear people trying to phrase bug reports as positive feedback.

 

Sometimes it is all about how it's said. Offering critical opinions and suggestions are one thing, belittling and insulting post directed at community members or staff at Port. to me is out of bounds. Saying what you want to get across can be said in a way that isn't insulting. And personally,if someone is insulting,their post does need to be removed or a thread locked or deleted. Yes,people will always disagree, but we can be adult and civil while doing so.

 

If there's one thing I've learned from participating in forums, it's that people rarely... And I mean VERY RARELY change their minds. Even when presented with compelling arguments, facts, and evidence.

Some people have it in their heads that the game isn't meeting their expectations. This is not likely to change.

Some people have it in their heads that the game is coming along great, and that the devs are working hard and overall doing a great job. This is not likely to change.

Some people have it in their heads that favorites are being played in the forums with respect to pledge level. This is not likely to change.

Some people have it in their heads that there are vigilante forum members reporting others they do not like for whatever reason, and causing them to be unfairly moderated. This is not likely to change.

All of the above people I may personally agree or disagree with. It doesn't matter- my own opinions are unlikely to change.

Here's one example. Recently I saw some people complaining about all the grind necessary to take skills from 80 to GM. Then they were complaining about the fact that the max death penalty is about to double.

Beyond this, at least one person seemed to suggest that the devs were *intentionally* slighting them personally by making certain decisions.

When presented with numbers and data about how the skill levels and effectiveness gain, demonstrating that it is totally unnecessary to GM a bunch of skills in order to be an effective SotA player... Did this change their mind?

No. Because GMing skills is "what they do" in a game. They have it in their minds that they want to run around showing off their 30+ GM skills, and they are fully willing to grind to get there and to grind to offset the spectacular XP loss that will be applied whenever they die in order to have 30+ GM skills.

They will continue to grind, complaining all the while, and when their complaints "go unheard" (i.e. a design decision was made long ago that has been discussed ad nauseum and is never going to change) there's a good chance they will complain about that too, and maybe eventually ragequit and go complain on Steam about the "toxic community" or how the dev team "never listens to them" or whatever.

At the end of the day, many people would rather be right (at least in their own minds) than be happy. Little actual discussion happens in forums as hardly anybody ever changes their mind about anything.

The only thing that separates some posters from others is the degree that some insist on presenting their opinions as facts.

"This game is so grindy!"

Well... Yes it is... If you care about GMing 30+ skills.

See the problem with the above statement is it is presented as a FACT rather than simply one person's experience of the game.

"I feel like the grind from 80 to GM is over the top."

Only one of those statements can *actually* be true. But good luck explaining that to somebody who "has it in their head" that the game is too grindy.

Yes... It is too grindy... For YOU. For somebody else, not so much. Same goes with every other opinion, perception, experience of the game, or the forums.

 

I do think Berek does try to do a good job. I think he has a very difficult job. Sometimes I think that he gets orders from above to moderate posts that he might have left if it was up to him. Not sure about that but I suspect it.

Another thing about forums, and this forum in particular is that there are many different kinds of people here all getting mashed up together. PvP, PvE, Solo, Meta, RMT business.......so and so forth.

In addition, people are very different and from different life styles and different cultures. For instance I worked as a bartender in a strip club for 17 years. My view on how we say things might differ from others. What I would call daily banter and conversation might not agree with another persons version of morality. Another example is my mother. Her second marriage was to an abusive alcoholic who beat her, me and my sister. My mom ended up being a man hater. I grew up being told that being a man was evil and bad. I still loved my mom and listened to her. She was not all bad, she just had a different experience in life. I sure did not lock her out of the house, I understood that bad things happened.

Now we may not know each others personal lives or backgrounds, but there should be some thought about how you react to others. Before you condemn someone and use the report button as the judge and jury, understand that each of us has fought some private war that has affected us. No one likes rejection and some people have had to fight all there life just to get noticed. Some people are more charismatic than others, while others do not have the social skills needed to frame a topic in the best way, and when people attack there opinion they take it personally. Its just life.

So people are different, people have different expectations. Circle, star, and diamond wood blocks do not fit into a square hole. I understand that we all need to try to work together better but it has to be from all sides, or all the circles, stars, and diamonds feel they are not compatible to the square just leave.