Experience point loss has removed the incentive to adventure and explore.

Ok, @redfish ..... So your point - as it relates to the OP regarding the negative effect death skill decay has on players - is that skill decay has virtually zero effect on those of you who RP virtually exclusively.
And I would completely agree with your assessment !!!

You must also consider, that the % of backers/players who would see skill decay in the same light as you - are in a bit of a minority.
Don't believe me ?
Look back on this thread and see the number of "Likes" on posts from players who are discouraged by the skill decay on death, and compare it to the "Likes" on the ones who feel that the current system is "right on track"...

 

No, actually, I didn't make that point at all.

I'm not sure how you think I see skill decay.

 

Then accept my apology....
I read it several times prior to my reply.

And with this reply, I'm not sure I do either...
Sorry.

I'll just ask straight out:
Do you feel that the current system of skill decay upon death is good for the game ?

 

I don't think its a great system, no, skill loss is generally not fun or appealing. I would prefer the soft cap be handled differently, and whatever death penalty we have be different and not be based around skill decay.

I would argue, though, some of the characterizations of it are exaggerated. I've played the game a lot and have done a lot of grinding to the point that I'm Level 91. While I'm on a grinding run, I prefer not to die, but if I do, I don't worry about it much. I know that in the long run, I'm accumulating more XP than I'm losing by dying, so I shrug it off. Just mathematically, it doesn't take that long to recover if that's your intent to do; that's why I'm level 91 and have 15 GMs even though I die frequently... skill decay hasn't stopped me from leveling. I'm also generally grinding for gold and loot, and not for XP, too, so I'm not paying too much attention to it i the first place. And because if you die twice in a row, you also won't lose much more XP, since you won't have accumulated more decay, I don't really worry much if someone invites me to go into a dangerous area with them or asks me to join them in a boss fight. If I have decay loss, I know I'll just regain it later.

I realize that some people might experience it a little differently, and this was actually one of the points I was making in my post... How much you feel it depends on how you're playing. If you're grinding a lot, you won't notice it, because you'll regain the XP losses. If you aren't paying attention to XP gains, you probably won't notice it much, either.

I was also pointing out how much I think the whole tiered zone system, and importance of adventure level in the game, is a big part of the problem.

This was mainly a reply to Grumpy who was saying the game was all stick and no carrot, and about other issues and not just skill decay. My view is the problem isn't the game has too much stick, its mostly carrot, but just the specific mechanics are bad and designed around min/maxing. So I actually think a death penalty is important, but wish it were something other than skill decay, which I don't think works very well.

 

On that point, I would agree completely.........

 

The only thing that decay brought to this game was a split in the Community and frustration. It does not work as soft cap and if you replace it with another decent death penalty, nobody will miss it. Hard cap as a alternative is also stupid and will harm the game. It would be fair for everyone and will be good for balancing but this will also split the Community because active players will reach their limits fast and the game has not much to offer then player driven content.
Like many times told, we have to work on new XP caps to slow down the progression and how many xp you get from mobs at the first place. Then make group play interesting again to bring back the players

 

I offered the following in another thread,which was in response to people saying their was no viable alternative to death decay.

"I think everything surrounding decay upon death is the fact that some were racing to 100+ and the developers were not ready or unable to deal with avatars at such a high adventure level,because they would eventually become bored. The idea was for a long term game. I have heard others say in the past they played other games with skill decay,none that I ever played had it. If this concept had ever been introduced into Warcraft,they would have had hundreds of thousands unsub.
Obviously in Warcraft,the object is to reach max level, gear and fight raid bosses, although there are tons of other things to do. In Shroud,the concept seems to be we will keep you from ever maxing out at all cost. Although these two games are different,my idea of death in shroud should be:
Adventure Level:
1-25 First Death 5% XP gain loss for one hour,2.5% XP gain loss per hour each additional death. Resets after 6 hours of game time.
26-50 First Death 7.5% XP gain loss for one hour,4.5% XP gain loss per hour each additional death. Resets after 6 hours of game time .
51-75 First Death 15% XP gain loss for one hour,7.5% XP gain loss per hour each additional death. Resets after 6 hours of game time .
76-100 First Death 25% XP gain loss for one hour,20% XP gain loss per hour each additional death. Resets after 8 hours of game time.
100-125 First Death 35% XP gain loss for one hour,35% XP gain loss per hour each additional death. Resets after 10 hours of game time.
126-200 First Death 50% XP gain loss for one hour,50% XP gain loss per hour each additional death. Resets after 24 hours of game time

In other words,looking at level 126-200 the first death their XP gain goes from full to 50% of what it would be, their second death cuts that in half again,their 3rd death cuts that in half yet again and so on. Given a 24 hour of game time reset window,that would slow people down a lot,while lower level adventurers are taking less of a hit death wise.
To me this makes more sense than taking away what people have already gained,to me that concept is just brutal and encourages lower level not to group together to adventure."

The developers and some players want some form of punishment for death,so here it is. You don't lose what you have,but you lose what you will get next over a given period of time. @Chris @DarkStarr @Lord British anyone care to tell me why this isn't a viable option?

 

Hmm i think People would just logout and play another game for n hour and then would come back and level again.

 

I dunno i think the perception of the loss is a bit to drastic. I am level 87. I loose something like 50k on death. Now that's realy not that bad considering if i die again i loose 25k. then 12.5 ect ect down the line. The flip side. Where i hunt the mobs are wroth 7-11 k xp. it takes me about 30s to kill them and they re-spawn fast. I can earn 50k xp in roughly 10 min. I am not some uber player or extremely skilled. In a nights worth of grinding i usually walk away with 4 mill + in xp. Also for the record i am a melee which is pretty much the gimpyest class in the game.

Now if your not willling to step up where you hunt and only wish to hunt in R5-6 areas. I completely understand your perception. Even though when you die in those areas at any lvl below 70 your loosing almost nothing in xp... above 70 you are biting off more then you can chew and deserve the penalty. Being complacent and not respecting the content of the game would be your fault. Even a hoard of R4 skellies can kill a level 115.

 

After all 25 pages, I am still confused as to the original intent of decay. People seem to think that it is intended to slow down the advance of high gain players. If so, it has been quite plainly shown that this is not happening. Experience decay is irrelevant to the advanced character and will not slow them down at all. If this is the case, then is there some other intent at play here? What the heck is it? If not, I propose that death decay should be turned on its head. Perhaps we should get a 10,000 exp bonus on death, reducing at some rate over the 24 hour window to prevent gaming. A 10,000 point bonus would encourage the lower level players to take more chances, improve their opportunity for exploring new levels, and no one would get hurt. The fact that even the higher level people will get the bonus is moot because as it has been shown, it will make basically no difference to them.

 

lol ... i am trying to take your post seriously. it also makes me laugh when thinking of the telethon and the people killed by stags. I am going to say a Hard no.... This is not coming from an elitist perspective or anything. Rewarding failure is not a good game design.... that is the reasoning.

One of the things i just don't understand is how people are perceiving difficulty. With food buffs and shrine buffs a brand new character can carelessly fumble through R3 zones. Talk to almost any Hospitaler like my self and we will probably be willing to just give you 1 bear steak and potatoes with a side of Wolf and Lamb. You pair that with stopping by any +1 combat HP shrine and you are doing amazing things at a very low level. I didn't even have those luxuries when i started. I just got some junk crafted chain and a decent halberd and went to it. with 20 hours of play there is no reason why a player cannot achieve up to level 40 there isn't even XP loss. Getting to Adv lvl 40 takes roughly sub 20 hours of game play. At Adv lvl 40 you can start hunting in R5 zones with ease. The only thing i would agree with is the lack of availability of R5-R8 zones. There are very few and they are not made very clear to players. Either way any well versed Hospitaler should be able to point you in the right directions. The big thing is just respecting the content and not leroy jenkings your way through. Paying attention to mechanics. There are mechanics in this game that flat out can be avoided. An example of this would be Troll stomps. You can jump over them.

I am going to stop before i ramble on but you get the point.

The impact of decay that you are perceiving is not nearly as bad as your exaggerating it to be. If the penalty of Dieing and loosing 5-10 min of progress is too much for you then this is obviously not the game for you. If you are hunting in a zone well below your level and are not respecting the content causing a death. That is on you and again you should accept the consequence. Even then at my level if i were to die in a R5 zone which almost all mobs yeild 1k xp. it would only take me 50 kills to recover my loss. This would probably be a 20 min set back as i am over level for the zone and tend to slaughter R5 mobs.

 

I'd go with reset it after significant log out time (i.e. avatar rest time). But otherwise, really like this idea. It piggybacks nicely with some that Bowen and Redfish and a few others have suggested.

 

Doesn't this describe absolutely everything about our game and community? Its why, even when I'm hating on something (like this system), there is always an intention to see it from the other perspective. When the negative arguments outweigh the good I'm far more vocal. When it is just my preference vs. another's preference (like balancing play between PvE vs PvP vs Crafters, ALL need to be fun and engaging regardless of what an individual player prefers) then I try to support both sides while making my personal preference clear.

Agreed. There have been a bunch of good ideas in regards to this, sadly they aren't being used yet.

 

Here Here ....

It's not a good system ... no one really likes it but understand it.... ok ?? From the developers Perspective if there wasn't decay. There would be nothing stopping you from becoming a demi god. If your wanting that then agian your in the wrong game as there is no balance. Everyone will be the samish thing. That is bad for the game and which is bad for the community. It's like the parrent knowing whats best for the child and having to be the bad guy in order for the child to be happy.

Now the Telethon really brought this up as they are addressing and thinking about this They don't know if they are going to go with Hardcap .... which i think is what gave UO it's real charm. or the soft cap which gave Asherons Call it's charm. Either way all energy spent here is more or less blowing hot air until we get how @DarkStarr is wanting to take this. He Understands this more than anyone else and he also feals the Gravity of the situation. Just believe i promise you our developers are doing the right thing.

 

(edit)

On a side note i wonder how the community would react if it was actually a Vitae system where you had to work off the XP penalty of death to regain your power like in Asherons Call. If the principle factor is loosing xp that you have lost. How would everyone feel if it was just a penalty that you had to "burn off" would this hostile approach to the intention of what it does be any different?

(edit)

 

Both agree and disagree. It purely depends on your personal perception and perception is every thing. Currently, we have a negative mechanic that many people perceive negatively. It doesn't feel good to lose anything, even more so when the people who are losing are not the intended target for the loss (the intention being to try to slow down those on the upper tier of the game).

How long do you grind for? The numbers you give mean you are grinding for over 13 hours at a time (50K (in 10 minute segments) x 6 (number of 10 minute segments in an hour) = 300K, 300K goes into 4 mil 13.3 times, meaning your session is 13 hours and 20 minutes long). I'm not faulting long play sessions, nor am I faulting numbers (I'm guessing you're probably earning more than just 50K in 10 minutes, not a bad thing and I wish I was even remotely close to that), just trying to figure it out.

How many mobs are 100% to your damage? I'd argue pure death mage is gimpyest class which is why almost everyone is hybrid magic user with melee or ranged thrown in because purist mage isn't viable.

Completely agree here. That's part of the fun of the game is finding where you can survive. That's part of the annoying frustrating grind is being locked to the area you can survive long after you stop getting decent xp. Its a delicate balance.

 

Odd, I'm adv lvl 56 and I still die in T4 zones on a pretty regular basis.

 

Adv lvl 40 gives you a yellow con on R5 mobs. this means you can hit them regularly. I tell all new players to wear left over player crafted plate that has no bonus's. This gives damage avoidance and decent mitigation you do not need any skills to use the plate in this function. after that you just single/double pull your kills. Using your abilities you can ealisly take it down. I usually tell people to start off with archery even if they don't want to be archers. If you want to do magery use Ice arrow to snare and just kite them around. Make sure you hunt animals and not bandits / elves.
Food buffs and Shrine buffs are also Very important. Maintaining at least a level of 1.3 combat health / focus from food is a must. This is particularly vital for mages as they are hamstrung by focus at the early levels. For Mages i think the biggest mistake they make is going fire. Fire is actually one of the weakest classes of damage at the start. Your far better off going earth / water at the beginning.

 

My numbers are not exact but the 4 mil on a night that i grind is accurate. a grind session is usually around 6-8 hours. Casually sessions of 2 hours of play yield about 1 mil xp. So your right that it probably takes me less time to recover then most. My intention was not to deceive but iterate that in most cases people are not loosing more than 10 min of work.

as for if it's all my damage ... very much i do not use magic offensively. I use it for healing and buffs. I am a pure physical damage character. With the exception of doing "research" to raise my attunments when i pretend to be a crappy mage lol. Even at that i am only about 350-400 in all schools and still can do R5's with out a problem.

 

This has actually been suggested by a few people in these various threads. My only question is would it actually stop what they are wanting it to stop. As you've pointed out, for those who are high level and above provided content, death isn't a negative because of either grabbing XP quickly enough to not notice it, or just simply not being killed by mobs.

Completely agree here. We need balance and a system that provides it. Currently however, it isn't stopping the demi-gods from being demi-gods. There is a much needed balancing act and it needs to start with what is the intention. Not what is the mechanic and is it good or bad, but what is the intention.

And example of this concept:

If intention is to make death suck so people try to avoid it:
Keep system as it is (it sucks for those affected by it) and accept that power gamers will never feel it.
Change system to something else that affects everyone (cripple body parts, slow movement, require rest or bandages or whatever, lose gear and have to recover it off body or lose it for good, etc.)

If intention is to stop power gaming from being demi-gods (stops someone from being lvl a billion):
Put in an exponentially scaling xp system based on total skills (not just skill tree) or exponentially reducing amount of xp gain based on adv lvl to make everlasting grind not worth it

If intention is to stop one person from being able to master everything (GMs in everything and forcing people to pick and choose classes and skills):
Put in an exponentially scaling xp system based on total skills (not just skill tree) that gets punitive unless you set other skills to untrain (and only return 50-75% or so of the xp) and not just lock them at a high level.

I'm not sure where the devs are actually looking for this system (I've heard all 3 of these being tossed around), so it makes it harder to recommend a good direction to move in.