WHY PVP IS IMPORTANT TO ME.

I've been saying since the beginning that the thing that ties all players together who are coming from an Ultima background is a classic role-playing experience. This is what both interests the PvPers and the PvEers.

As for PvPers, they don't just want to play dueling games or capture the flag games, just to win some prizes or emotes, they want to play as fighters who are fighting over something that matters. They want real stakes to their fights. There is currently no kind of PvP gameplay like this in SotA. Winning an emote at the Obsidian Trials isn't a real motivation for a fight. This is the part that you're highlighting, @Brink1123 .

On the other hand, the main problem PvEers had with Open PvP as it existed in Ultima Online is that the PvP element of the game often got in the way of role-playing, because you couldn't escape from PvP in the game, many PKers didn't care about RP and could overwhelm someone not into PvP.

So, both are primarily interested in a type of role-playing experience.

Somewhere, along the way, I think this got lost. The devs have talked about PvP and often the way they talk about the UO experience is they think the primary problem is people didn't want to lose stuff. No its not. People are OK with losing stuff under certain circumstances, the problem is why they ended up losing stuff. Are they losing something just because they lost a meaningful battle in a role-playing context, or are they losing all of their wealth just because of some punk PKer who ganked them just because they were passing by?

So the issue to me was always how you balance role-play PvP with role-play PvE in a way where everyone is happy.

But the bigger problem is if you have an attitude of "role-playing is not what matters to players", over time you drop the virtual world pretext that always has been a major part of Ultima games, and the game starts being more and more about grinding and dance parties. Then neither the PvPers or the PvEers are happy. That's where the game is heading today.

You can then ditch your backers, who want that type of role-playing experience, and try to sell the game to people already playing the theme park MMOs out there on the market and sell it as "a better theme park MMO", but that market is already saturated, stagnating in many respects, and except for "big names", filled with many niche games with small audiences, and SotA is not what they're looking for anyway.

 

I had thought I wasn't setting off the right trigger to spawn a boss in the PVP zone. I didn't know they never put one in there. Yeah that kind of stinks.

 

but the PvP zone has a higher drop rate for the bandit gear found there, right? I dont think PvP zones should be the best XP grind spots

 

I was thinking that PvP zones should have equipment or crafting materials that had the type of bonuses that would only activate against other players (not mobs).

This way PvP zones would be the best places to get PvP equipment while not affecting PvE.

Players already switch regularly between their PvE and PvP sets. It's just a natural progression.

 

Sol an I were talkign today about equipment that would begin to look different base don your kill/death ratio.

Like plain looking armor that gets more battle/worn or menacing looking as you increase your K/D

 

...or more blood spattered

I think that's a fantastic idea!

 

Let’s revisit the Blood Bay event for a minute @Antrax Artek , we had a great opportunity to test the GM powers and that part worked well. The powers that be (No idea who picked the sides) had a massive brain fart. Yes I will call out the idiot whose decision took what could have been a worthwhile event and turned it into a slaughter of the sheep over and over and over again.

So what was accomplished with that “pad your kill count event”. You lost a bunch of future PVPers. Don’t make claims that you want to increase PvP when you either make or go along with a decision like the one in Blood Bay. We have had four previous large wars with only one complaint which was the friendly fire due to lack of raid party option. I have no plans to create/stage/organize any future ones but others who want “sheep pirates” may, that is their choice. Now that I got that poison out of my system here is the simple solution for the wolves and the sheep.

Make all the zones/encounters either PVP or PVE. PVP get double resources and 50% more XP. Risk vs Reward simplified and doable. It worked in UO and it can work here.

R/Boris

 

A lot of the reason most of us play this game is because it is a sandbox MMORPG. We like having the choice of which guild to be in or attempt to enter, which we don't like, etc. For those who like matchmaking systems, there is Call Of Duty, WOW and several other giant named games.

A lot of us in a guild like playing with the guild instead of random people. Especially when player skill is important. We all know how each other plays - who to go by for heals, who to go by for DOTs, who needs more help than others, etc. I would submit to you that we are not looking for pvpers on the fence, rather new players. Ones who will decide to only pve and ones that will also pvp. Pvp requires thick skin, a strong heart and will. Some just don't have all three, which is ok. This is why a bigger population is needed.

As for the zone suggestion, absolutely!!

 

good PVP and a bigger population go hand and hand you cant have one with out the other.

 

People used to stone criminals to death too and that worked. Doesn't mean its right.

What worked in a game 25 years ago isn't going to be a magic fix.

 

So you disagree with my quick fix. What is your solution then that wont alienate PVE and encourage PVP?

 

I dont' have one. But Portalarium has had a very bad track record of applying band aids such as the one you suggested and it has never worked out. It needs a well thought out plan of action that gives the PVP crowd what they want without disrupting any of the PVE elements. It needs a real viable solution rather than just changing a number in a database and hoping people will be happy with it.

 

Honestly, there's no quicker way to get your PvE crowd to abandon the game entirely than to put the best/most efficient scenes in the game behind a PvP wall.

I'm all for incentivizing PvP, the problem is we don't have an actual "pvp system" right now.
PvPers can flag up and do what they like, and everyone else can stay out of it for the most part, with a few quest-related exceptions that result in the usual gank/grief behavior.
Basically, right now? PvPers can PvP, with each other, to their hearts content. But this is never enough, it keeps coming up, they want to mess with people who aren't interested, or be 'rewarded' for doing the type of content that they prefer to begin with.

The PvP zones? For the most part, yeah, ghost towns.
There's nothing in there worth the hassle of allowing yourself to be harassed by others while you're trying to achieve a pve-related goal (xp, loot, whatever).
I absolutely think these zones should be brought up to par with equivalent tiered scenes to give PvPers something to do while waiting for prey.
But if you make the PvP scene the best most lucrative way to get stuff, or the only way to get stuff, you alienate all the people for whom forced pvp is simply a non-negotiable.

I appreciate the op's post on why he likes PvP and what it means to him. And I don't think the game should deny that.
But it should be among like minded individuals. Forced victimization of other players who do not share your opinion is not a good solution.

What we should be asking, is how can we make pvp interesting/rewarding for its own sake, not, how can we force more people to do it.
If you make it rewarding and interesting, and not simply a matter of "show up and get slaughtered to veteraa player that you have no chance against" then people are more likely to participate.

A scintillating example of how to do this wrong, is the obsidian trial. Ignoring the buggyness and bad timer system resulting in spending most of your time stood around doing nothing, the main problem is only one player out of all that show up, the ultimate winner, got a reward. For everyone else, it was just a waste of time. I've said it a thousand times, e that if you do not reward both the winner and the losers, losers will stop showing up to lose. It has to be fun/rewarding regardless of outcome. Otherwise we end up exactly where we are now, most players don't want to bother with PvP at all, because they'll just get pointlessly steamrolled, and then PvPers will come on forum and lobby for ability to attack anyone at will because they ran out of volunteers.

As for a solution?

Add content to pvp scenes that gives some sort of pvp reward/currency/whatever. Call it a daily quest, or a series of repeatable quests, faction building quests, unlocking higher tier rewards that are either pvp-related crafting components (% dmg to players sort of thing) or titles/deco/cosmetics/patterns/emotes/whatever. Another good suggestion has been minable obsidian chip nodes and/or chaos gem nodes as chaos magic is mostly a pvp thing. As all these things would be sellable, it gives PvPers something to earn while playing in their hunting grounds but you're likely to get other people coming in dabbling. There will be pvp. There will be fighting. There will be profit. If you tell me I have to go into a scene and kill another player, I probably can't do that if I'm lower level/less geared/less skilled, there' zero reason for me to go - but I can go into a pvp scene and try to do a quest. Maybe I get killed today, maybe I don't, but at least I have a chance of walking away with something instead of nothing. PvP areas with daily quest boards are a great way to draw in people who have no interest in just stalking/killing prey but enjoy the group dynamics.

 

You can't force people to pvp, you can only force them to leave the game. Sorry but most people don't want to pvp. You see it in MMOS that offer pve servers and pvp servers, 85% stay on the pve servers. You could put the very best loot in the game in pvp areas and I will just buy the stuff on the market or not have the best stuff and be left behind until I leave out of frustration.

 

Another month and another post about how PVP is broke.

 

I believe there are confused ideas, here no PVEr is forced to PVP, it has never happened before and has never been the goal of any sane PVPer.
Here are PVPers that are forced to play in safe zones, otherwise they're just punished cause PVP zones rates are really bad compared to safe zones.
This is what killed PVP, all skilled and serious players don't move a step in PVP zones cause they probably don't like to be punished.

@Boris Mondragon I'll pretend I haven't read what you wrote. You'd better take a look at my old answer in the other thread on the topic.

 

How is this different from my feeling toward not just pve but the loot and 100s of bosses needed for a decent artifact such as a cabalist hood? I do not farm anything, I am forced to buy everything. My sole source of income was pvp loot and now it's gone.

 

Don't pretend you did not read it. If you want to talk about it privately then we can. If not then this is my position on the Blood Bay event.

 

Sorry, I don't like repeating myself. I quote for you the message i mentioned.

A little tip, next time don't give away prizes to the one with most kills and organize better the event, set goals etc. if you don't want to see people going on madness and killing everything around.

 

Im not a PvPer

I like the idea of there being more resources in PvP zones. Some things that currently exist in PvP zones that i DO enjoy are: Super quick respawning farmign spots (like obsidian golems, lot sof obsidian chips and granite), the highest level pirate NPCs int he game are in a PvP zone and also respawn quickly. A unique sword pattern that is on a NPC i've only found in a PvP zone. I've never found a fall artifact before, but i like that they are there to be found. Random boss spawns out in the open. Lich helmets which are exclusive to PvP zones (finally found a obsidian one!). Chaos pollen. Not useful for PvE but really more PvP specific poison and its only found in PvP zones. I get mroe supply bundle drops off easier mobs in PvP zones.

^These thigns have existed for years and are the reasons i currently go to PvP zones. More of this kinda stuff would be great, and it would probly be a good idea if there was stuff like this that you had no way to obtain until AFTER you sieze control of it first.