And suddenly I'm even more excited for SotA...

Although I was in the original UO beta, only MMO I've put any serious play into has be Lotro, less because its an MMO, more because I'm a Tolkein freak. Havent really played this past year though, haven't logged in for months. Last night I had some time and thought I'd jump back in, maybe buy Moria and finally get to Lothlorien while waiting for SottA... and I find the combat skill system has been completely turned on its head from a earned skill system, to a points based "tree" that forces you to choose a subset. The game is, literally, unplayable.

This got me thinking about what I don't like about the new system versus the old, and got me thinking about whether I really liked the old one in the first place. Sure, I had it down to a science: hit this button, then that one, and when I have enough fervor hit this other one, watch for this one to be active and hit it.....and so on and so on. It occurred to me that other than making sure my toon is still facing the right way with the right creature selected, combat was nothing more than a sequence of button presses. I wasn't even seeing the graphics 'cause my eyes are fixated on the dam buttons, watching for pips and such. The new system is no different, except now I have 1/3 the buttons to mash (to an ultimate disadvantage in success rate).

This little manifesto is all to say that Turbine didn't get $20 last night. Maybe Portalarium will if combat proves to be genuinely innovative, fresh, and interesting.

 

You and me, both

 

I hear you. For me, it was GW2. I liked it. I love WvW fighting.

After 3 Characters and 80 levels each, Crafting Maxed but never used (Stop me if you heard this....Insert Game) I just can't "get into it" knowing what is coming for SotA.

Builds and Rotations to me are not skill. When so much has been run down to the Min/Max where almost every fight is finished before it's even been started (ok, a bit overboard here lol), its just not my thing.

I want to play a GAME. Games of Chance, roll the dice, use my imagination and quick wit. I don't want to spend hours looking at a spreadsheet - I do that for work, not fun. Most of the time my characters are now average just because I refuse to spend the time to crunch numbers and make builds. I don't want to not be able to adventure with my friends at night because I don't have GOLD level armor and weapons or my DPS won't check me past the next Boss.

I work, have a family, love to see the outdoors once in a while. So when I think of fun, I picture sitting down with my friends and grabbing a set of dice and seeing where it the evening takes us. That is why I liked MMO's of the Past. That is why I Dislike MMO's of the present.

I Double-Downed on Shroud. It's it for me one way or the other - so hopefully it will be a Long Ride. I'm looking forward to something different and I have been for a while now.

 

The game I play the most currently is SWTOR, and it is like this. You have an ideal rotation of abilities and you basically perform them rote. And since you're watching for the global cooldown to know exactly when to hit the next ability, you play the entire game watching toolbars, and less watching the combat itself (though you need to watch both for positional awareness, etc).

I think a lot of people are scared when they hear deck combat, but making the system dynamic can be a good thing.

 

I think we will get something wonderful. Not because SOTA's combat plans are amazing, but because we will all be there to test and help refine the system. Most games don't have that early feedback from the people that are using it.

 

I'm completely for seeing where Portalarium goes with the new combat system. It reminds me a little of The Chronicles of Spellborn... If you watch the video, check the Skill Deck and how the abilities change.



My issue is.... how do you change the focus from staring at the Deck to the actual combat? Can you completely? Probably not but......

 

I hear you on SWTOR on watching the toolbar with its cool down timer. I left that game after the first three months as I got sick if playing that way.

My SWTOR collectors edition is in the closet. I would love to sell the physical items to recoup most of that purchase.

 

The game improved greatly over the past two years. It is F2P now if you wanted to check it out again.

 

There are other ways to make combat than either this or traditional idk why people think is either this way or the wow way. There are tons of great ideas i dont understand why they arent gven a go in place of this extreme model

 

With their announcement of their commitment towards blending PvP and PvE into one world... I am also more excited. Still awaiting details but I am hopeful we'll arrive at something good for all play styles.

 

For myself, In WoW, SWTOR, RIFTS, Allods, and a variety of other such games, I always refused to HAVE a rotation, I hate them. Passionately. The idea of a one-two setup punch is that it's a surprise tactic, if you have to do it over and over, it's a predictable pattern, and thus a weakness. Having the effectiveness of subsequent attacks depend on having used half your skillset on this "rotation" takes this to rediculous heights.

I always built my toolbar to be one offs with each skill useful for a function, and me able to respond to each situation I saw with a viable response. My greatest successes there were in WoW and RIFTS, due to the macro system and the "build your own way" talent systems. When each changed their macro systems AND dumbed down the talent systems, it was the tolling bell of my subscription being cancelled.

I have ALWAYS played games "eyes off the bar", and any game that I cannot play this way loses my attention very quickly.

 

When the deck appears have it occupying the upper third of the window. Zoomed out third person should give plenty of view point to it. Having the action bars down the bottom of the screen draws your attention down past the feet of your character when you're watching for *pings* and the like. its why a lot of the popular UI mods have big flashy effects and notifications in the upper section of the screen so you can focus on the combat itself.

I could imagine it like a set of cards that appears across the screen and as each one comes up it flips for the ability so you hit the number or click on it. Real deck combat. ^~ So your eyes are centered and flick up to see if anything has come up to use. At least thats how I'd do it. I guess it all depends on how combat goes with painting targets on the ground like... well... pretty much every MMO since WoW. I liked that with FFXI you didn't get the target indicators so random death and destruction could be coming your way if you were too close to targets.

 

They've repeatedly said that immersion is one of the primary goals, even during fighting... So yeah, curious how they'll tackle that!...

 

To OP: LOTRO was my first MMO and I found what you found that all I ever did was look to the foot of the screen to where the combat buttons were, The monster was onscreen but I never looked at it because I was timing my button presses, which really annoyed me, I later found Macros which enabled me to chain multiple buttons to one key press, And now I use an xbox controller for windows and chain the buttons to that, Now the game is more fun, I get to look at the screen and all my spells are chained to a few memory button sets.
I bought all the packs from Moria up to Helms deep for 25$ but like you I am struggling to keep going through Angmar as it's a awful region to play through.

 

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Thank you so much for the video RelExpo. I was having a difficult time even imagining what a deck system could look like. This combat in this video shows that it doesn't move at a slow pace and that it is very interactive. I liked a lot of things about it. I am really excited to try out SOTA combat. I am ready for something more interesting. There are things I like about the combat in many games , but I do think most are lacking. The video really caught my interest.

 

Aye they have, but even they're still trying to figure out the details. I hope they take a peek at this video. Can't wait to see how SotA combat will work.

I had a tough time imagining the Deck system and this helped me visualize it better. Not saying SotA combat will be like that video, but it seems where it'd be headed from the little we've seen. Glad you liked it.

 

That looks horribly bad.

What is good with that combat?

And why would that be any better then having full control of your skills so i could use any of them at any time.

That was what old UO had and that was lightyears better then this card game combat.

Timing of spells, speed and alot of tactics made UO PvP more fun and skill demanding then any MMO after. Took alot of time and practice to become really good.

I believe many of the ones praising this card game have little experience of really good combat systems as the UO one.

I am surpriced that the creator of UO choose such a weak combat system but then again it was Raph Koster that designed UO combat.

 

That is a bit hard to explain, but it was an extremely good combat system. The only combat system that I have ever played in which it was actually fun, challenging and rewarding to PvP. My explanation would be that the skill wheel created a game within a game. It forced you to think tactically during combat, and allowed you to outsmart your opponents. The skills were such that you had to move during combat, to evade enemy aoe debufs or benefit from fellow players bufs. You had to think during combat and you actually stood a chance against players 5 levels above you. Skill was way more important than gear in this game. God, how I miss it.

 

Thanks for the video! Having never used the deck system, it was great to have a little tutorial on what it may be like!

 

I'm glad someone actually played TCoS. You have made me happy in my assumption of how the Deck combat can work and seems fun but also not completely out of your hand as some people believe it'll be.

Please remember, this is a video from ANOTHER game, not SotA. It just happened to be one of Deck combat that I wanted to share. This does NOT mean SotA will be exactly (or even remotely) like this. Just a video =)