Community Feedback Request for New Tier Titles -- (Dev)

Tier---Early Founder---New Backer


Adventuerer---Pioneer---Benefactor

Immortal Adventurer---Immortal Adventurer---Adventurer

Founder---Founder---Pilgrim

Royal Artisan---Royal Artisan---Artisan

Virtual Collector---Royal Archivist---Archivist

Explorer---Royal Cartographer---Cartographer

Collector---Royal Curator---Curator

Patron--- Royal Patron---Patron

Ancestor---Royal Ancestor---Ancestor

Navigator---Royal Navigator---Navigator

Developer---Royal Tinkerer---Tinkerer

Citizen---Noble Citizen---Citizen

Edelmann---Hoher Edelmann---Edelmann

Knight---"Sir/Dame? and ?Knight Commander---?Sir/Dame? and ?Knight?

Lord---"High Baron? and ?Lord?---?Baron?

Baron---?Count? and ?Baron?

Baron 2---?Earl? and ?Baron?--- ?Viscount?

Duke---?Duke?---?Marquis?

Lord Of The Manor---?Grand Duke? and ?Lord of the Manor?---?Archduke?

 

Those are the new titles per tier.

Early Founders also get their title in "Gold Lettering".

Visibility of Titles controlled by players.

Visibility of "Gold Lettering" - Pending

 

*barf* gold lettering



And I'm almost certain now that titles will be one color and names another for status indicators... which is absolutely the worst possible thing. Not only is it completely hideous but it will be terribly confusing for new players. Once the dev forums are up and an Alpha test going, and I get to see what it is they have in mind, I'll likely decide whether to fight it vociferously then or back down. Right now I'm trying to hold back on writing a treatise on why this is such a short sighted and backward idea. It's completely disheartening and weakens my confidence in the developers of this game.

I hope they backpedal, but I'm guessing they're not going to... it's just so... not aesthetically pleasing... and to what? Stroke some people's egos about when they backed?

It's just such an unfortunate sign of things when devs are willing to sacrifice meaningful things for this sort of frivolous nonsense.

 

Good you made a similar silly post on the front page so I can post my response to you here since it hasn't shown up there yet

Your making a lot of assumptions there

Firstly Chris recently stated that they are going to try to make it so if your PVP you wont actually SEE anyone who is non PVP and vis versa, much better than a colour difference

Secondly devs WONT be backers, so why would they ever be gold?

Thirdly who says there actually WILL be volunteers in this style of game and if there is what makes you think they wouldn?t be using something different?

Fourthly why do you think recognizing those of us who are willing to back the project from the start, who have helped make the project and who probably have a fair amount of knowledge about the project because we played it right from alpha is ?frivolous?

 

I'll copy and paste my response to your obviously ill-informed response here to ensure visual contact.

@Sir Asguard

The assumption they?re making is that they will never need this option in the future and therefore swearing it off as a Kickstarter backer reward. It?s exactly the opposite of how you?re seeing it.

I was using the chat as an example. Did you read the post? In web-site chat they use red for dev, purple for mod and gold for regular user. How was that not clear? What did you miss? It?s *an example* of how the mechanic works.

Thirdly, why not have volunteers? That?s what Mods are? why not have player run events by event volunteers? Have you played a community based multiplayer game before? Further, yes they can do something different but *using a colored name is immediately effective to everyone seeing it without question*.

?Fourthly?, as you put it, backing the project is not frivolous. Burning up valuable game mechanics over gold colored titles to feel important is frivolous. We know we?re backers, we?ll have the swag, people will know we?re backers. What more ego stroking can a person possibly need? Is it really worth burning a mechanic like this over feeling important for being an early backer? It?s poor game design; plain and simple.


So everyone can see your false understanding about what I said, I quote myself directly for the second point:

It is a game mechanic. The color of a name can mean many different things depending on how the mechanic is implemented. As I stated before, it?s a fast way to differentiate a Game Master from a Volunteer from a regular player. Look at how it is handled in the website chat: red = dev; purple = mod; gold = regular user. It can be a quick way to differentiate a PvP enabled player from a non-PvP enabled player.

 

If I'm flagged for PVP and my dad isn't, and we are friends would I not be able to see him? I'd hope I could, otherwise we'd never see each other in game.

 

@Sir Mishri That's a really good point. By the way, thanks for the support. I think I'm definitely in the minority in my dissent on the colored titles.

Some folks are right that there are bigger fish to fry, but I fear that this small decision may be symptomatic of a larger decision algorithm problem. We'll see though. Thanks again.

 

Color is often used to reflect PVP flags, or the state of the target (neutral, friendly, enemy).

Instead of changing color for early founders, their could be a small graphical symbol before their nameplate to represent their early founder status.

Perhaps the serpent?

 

@enderandrew I think a Silver Serpent symbol would be *perfect*. What a great idea.

 

@Vandigeth : What support? You running for office? I mean seriously.

If the Devs felt it would such an issue, would they have even allowed "Gold Lettering" as an option? My first suggestion, actually, was using a symbol of some kind. (Related to the title or just 1 type for all)

The Devs had all our suggestions and all our concerns posted well before they made any decisions. Lets see how it will be implemented now. If it looks bad or interferes with game play, I'll be the first to say "it has to go". But this endless rant about "Gold Lettering" for titles, mate, your head's gone.

I like the Silver Serpent Idea as well, but will symbols be used as a mechanic? I don't know. Maybe a using a symbol will conflict with game play more.

 

thankfully this subject can now come to a close as they have stated on the home page that they have not finalised the titles

 

I see no issue here. L2 used Red for PK, Purple for PvP flagged, White->Blue gradient for unflagged (getting bluer based on reputation), and still managed to use gold for certain contest winners. Obviously PvP flagging just overwrites the gold.

 

@PrimeRib : Thank you for your support....lol

 

Posted May 7th, by guess who?



"You could also have the option to add a symbol or use colored text to show a difference."

Examples: Crown symbol in front of Lord of the Manor.
Sword and Shield symbol in front of knight
Paintbrush in front of Artisan

Both of these options were debated at that point on. So, for close to 2 weeks, the Devs had it all there in front of them to decide.

I don't care if it was my idea, in fact, I used the feedback to refine and thoughts.

One thing I do have to question though, is this a personal attack against me or just the idea? I see this as a trivial issue. For you to rant like this about it, makes me wonder if I whooped on you in UO or another game lol.

 

I dont see any gold in any screenshots i could find..

http://lineage2privateserver.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/l2nostalgia-mass-pvp.png

http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/01/Shot00076.jpg

maybe if I could see some examples of it not looking bad or being confusing/distracting... we have about 25,000 pledges who will be getting it.. I suspect we'll see quite a few players with this gold title... especially my friends since they all pledged.

I was also opposed to symbols... but I like things to be clean/uncluttered.. a lot of eastern MMORPGs use symbols... like ff11 and 14, i didn't like it there either, but it didn't stop me from playing the game... its no show stopper, but i'll voice my opinion on it.

 

@ Sir Mishri

I played Lineage 2 from Chronicle 1 -> CT 1.5 (Hellbound) on the official server. Pre- Free to Play.

The only supported colors in Lineage 2 during this time of 7 years?

White -> Blue Gradient (Reputation)
Red -> White Gradiant (Karma)
Purple (Flagged)
Green (Clan/Ally Leader)

I never personally saw gold names... I was a clan leader and owned a castle for a short period so I know that does not get you gold either, just a wyvern upgrade for your strider and a shiny head piece. I also was a hero for a couple months that gave me a shiny aura and special weapon but no gold name plate.

 

@Sir Mishri,

(I'm replying here as this will probably get buried in the middle of the front page comments

Thank you Mishri, you rock sir! Do you recall where the devs said achievements may unlock after the name?

 

Gold in L2 was for winners of the original battle tournament. As well as the new one.

http://www.lineage2.com/battle-tournament/1_about.php

 

Thanks Whitegray!

It was during this chat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U9z00C3EfA

at the 12 minute mark is where he talks about troll slayer (and other) titles.

If you haven't watched that video yet i'd recommend it, they talk about some really interesting features in it... really looking forward to some of the things they talked about.

 

@Gunga Din

Whoa there buddy. Sounds like somebody is feeling a little insecure here.

To answer your question about support: It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who thinks that the gold lettering is a bad idea. It's helpful to know someone else thinks likewise.

For the record, sir, I've not said anything negative toward you. I've simply been stating my position against the idea of gold lettering in the title. If I may quote you; in fact, you've been quite hostile:

"@Vandigeth : What support? You running for office? I mean seriously." Condescending, trivializing.

"But this endless rant about ?Gold Lettering? for titles, mate, your head?s gone." Undermining, trivializing.

"One thing I do have to question though, is this a personal attack against me or just the idea? I see this as a trivial issue. For you to rant like this about it, makes me wonder if I whooped on you in UO or another game lol." Defensive, upset, insulted.

Don't show your hand by asking if it is a personal attack. If it were; then you and everyone else would know it. It only says to everyone else that you're feeling insecure and defensive about something. I don't believe I called you out on anything negatively. I only stated an opposite opinion to your own and that I thought the idea of coloring titles was a bad one which was an idea you have been championing. We did debate the issue but I thought it was on a professional level. In fact, I wouldn't even perceive your comments above as hostile if it weren't for your defensive posturing and calling me out directly via @Vandigeth. You're wearing your feelings on your sleeve, "mate".

Was it the *barf* comment? I do apologize if that is the case. Perhaps it was too colorful. I do try my best not to offend the delicate sensibilities around here and upset folks. Did 'frivolous nonsense' hurt your feelings? Really, if I've offended you, it was not my intention and I apologize. None of that was directed at you personally but at the idea of gold lettering for titles. I think you're an ok guy from what I've seen.

However, I'm attempting to maintain positive, professional demeanor here and request the same in return. I'm asking you to respectfully back off and tone it down a notch. Thank you.

Edit: removed most of the emoticons so as not to appear as though I'm not taking it seriously. I am quite serious.