Combat Feedback for R5

killing rabbits and frying chickens are fun things to do in-game... he he he... even the NPCs burn but they don't die though... T_T

 

I think you are looking for an action RPG -- which, at the current state of readily available network technology, would be very hard to pull off in any sort of "massively multiplayer" framework. A lot of MMO design is centered around trying to "hide" lag.

 

I disagree with you here. This game is not even close to alpha testing and its completely justifiable to be calling it a pre-alpha, because the very basics of the game's major systems are not in place even to be tested. If you are a game developer, you should be well aware that beta's are typically very nearly complete with generally small systems being tweaked, not major systems being added. What we are playing here is barely a game (not to knock the progress, I'm happy with it thus far), its cobbled together to allow us a peek behind the veil, to show us progress in the early development of the game, wet our appetite as things develop, and help them with some basic systems testing.

 

Spot on.
I wonder how much extra progress they would have had if they didn't give us these monthly looksies. I imagine for them it is not a chore but certainly an extra burden on development. I think they are needed though as we can give valuable feedback and keep them on their toes!

 

Did you have a chance to see DarkStarr's post in regards to what was included in R5? I recommend reading it if you haven't yet. He stated pretty clearly that not all combat related objectives made it into this release.

"However those deliverables didn’t quite end up matching our original goals. The sheer scope of getting skills working, while also responding to R4 feedback, made us radically shift focus for Release 5"​

There is plenty of "actual gameplay" implemented; dungeons, questing, PvE, dynamic environment, housing, crafting, engaging scenes, music and sound effects, parties and general communication. Your perspective of gameplay is incredibly narrow. You'd do well to broaden your perspective a bit. Since you threw down your "I'm a programmer" card, I might as well do the same. Modern software development isn't etched in stone; it is iterative. We (the users) got a release on the date we were promised, but not quite with all of the features implemented since some time was focused on incorporating R4 feedback (Bravo Portalarium!). No big deal. The features will make it there.

Your comment regarding dialing down the combat systems numbers is speculative and disrespectful. In my experience, development cycles that include monthly user demonstrations / early releases usually require the team to shift gears to some extent to focus on putting together a cohesive system that is demonstrable to the users. It makes complete sense to me that these numbers would be dialed down on the 11th hour, or even during the demo period as the kinks are ironed out. It's happened to me.

A colleague of mine from many years ago used to talk about Seagull Engineering -- where outside engineers would swoop in, take a poo on everything and fly away before it needed to be cleaned up. This was a joke related to hired contractors, but I feel there are a lot of Seagull Engineers on this forum. Either those that have some inkling of software experience, or those from UO, or Ultimas that think its not being done right, or those with a claim to know some other game that does X feature better. I don't see the purpose of this thread except to serve as a platform for you to whine, and throw poo. You should really consider having it removed. It's making you look bad dude.

 

The combat system is easy sauce right now, build 93. You can group together groups of mobs and not even worry about dieing.

 

They are probably working on something - the mobs - followed me but did not aggro - I had a mini convoy of 3

 

That's fine, as long as it is making the game better.

BTW... the seagulls are usually right. That's why smart companies hire outside advisers to rescue their software projects when they go bad.

Reason being, the guys inside the company at some point in time are so focused on their plan that they fail to see that the plan itself is a fail. So they insist that they have to go down a specific route although people that have seen tons of other projects know there are like ten better ways to do it in less time with less money. Why? Because they have either personally done it or seen some other company do it.

I have heard that one before... "How can that guy that knows nothing about our company tell us that we have to do this different... we have done it like that for ten years.". Old story. Everyone hates people from the outside giving advice.

Trust the seagulls, they have flown around the world and seen a lot of different projects and gathered experience from all these projects. And yes, change is painful, takes time and has to be cleaned up afterwards. That is normal.

But that has nothing to do with SotA, they probably just need to focus and build up their team.

 

The percentage of software development projects that fail despite having great technical hands on board is much higher than you would suspect as a layman.

 

I think the main important thing they're getting from it is simply seeing how their network infrastructure handles (or not!) a large influx of players. The broad architecture needs a vigorous shakedown early in the process.

 

I agree with all you say, but where does this leave us with regard to a release in October?
Will they just release an alpha version (progressing at the current pace they may make it there until October ) or will they soon announce the year delay it would need to be a finished game at this pace?
What would traditional investors rather than backers say about this?

 

Honestly, I can't say how it will pan out in the timeline. What I can say is the team seems to be in line with the schedule they've set for themselves. I was listening to the Idle Thumbs podcast a while back (bunch of dudes who work on various games including Walking Dead) and they spoke about what a total disaster games are prior to the public seeing them and people wouldn't believe how what appears to be a total mess suddenly turns a corner and is a game. I personally keep this in mind in regards to this game in particular. We are getting a look at such an early version of the game, something that normally would be reserved for private viewings for the media, etc. Everyone is free to read into this early version as they see fit, but I don't put too much stock in anything we are seeing now. Its just fun for me to roam around in a world that I expect to be very different, be it 6 months from now or later. Should they delay, I'm fine with that. These are experienced people creating a game on a pretty small budget with a small team. Delays in game releases are nothing new, but they've given no indication (major changes in release schedules, etc) that they are currently behind schedule in any significant way. I admit, it looks like they are to me, but I've no game making experience. I'm not a designer or coder and I don't work in the industry.

What would traditional investors say about what? A potential delay? Its a stretch to guess at any delay at this point, but lets suppose that they do announce a one year delay. I don't see how that would be different than any of the numerous games that are delayed when developers cannot meet deadlines. Games, triple A games costing many millions of dollars more than this that have been in development for years, are delayed all the time. Its not uncommon in the industry.

The biggest difference I see between the two is when dealing with a publisher, the missed deadline is dealt with in a professional manner and new deadlines are set. I'm not sure the same rational understanding would take place in these forums. This is all hypothetical though. Fact is, we don't make these games, we have no experience, and we are all speaking from positions of ignorance as outside observers of a process we are not privy to the inner-workings.

 

+100

 

If this were a beta close to release I'd be upset too but its a pre-alpha, combat skills were just now introduced with r5, they need feedback so give feedback put it in perspective and know this isn't the final polished product

 

As far as delays go...

"It ships when it's finished" gave us Ultima VII. "It ships on the deadline no matter what" gave us Ultima VIII and IX. Honestly, I was expecting them to miss the October release before I made my pledge. I seriously doubt it will be another year though.

 

Everyone remember that they are not just providing access to the game much earlier than most companies in the industry would -- they're providing access to the game much earlier than even other Kickstarter-funded games are. If you compare how much access SotA has provided to its community with what in inXile or Obsidian are doing, they're no where even close. Portalarium has taken a lot of hits in gamer forums at large by people who have no inkling of what games generally look like at this stage of development.

I think Portalarium is doing a fantastic service for the game industry at large that makes it worth taking on the criticism they have, in that they're educating the public about the game development process. As more developers start to get their fans involved earlier in the process, more developers will be comfortable doing it. And in particular, as more fans start to get a feel for how games look at different stages, they'll start to be able to provide better feedback at each stage.

 

I noticed this too. Then I noticed that I was clicking off the targeting of the guy I was fighting by accident. When I wasn't hitting the numbers for the shortcut using the mouse to click instead. Perhaps this was your issue? Just thinkin'....

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Beta is pushed to early next year. The (alpha) SC DFM (Dog Fighting Module) was supposed to have come out December but now it's May because CR & his team decided not to take shortcuts to getting it done. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made to deliver a game that meets it's backers & fans expectations.

I"m satisfied with the progress I've seen in the pre-alpha R5, there's a lot more work to be done specially in the hostile NPC AI. My personal area of interest is in seeing if it's viable to have a mobile, leather armored character with archery, magic and mace/knife skills even in the toughest combat conditions. So far all the videos I've seen have players gearing up with the heaviest & thickest armor they can find.