1. We have a QA initiative where we work with the community more closely than ever to get your bug reports into the hands of the developers. Please use this forum for LIVE Server bug reporting. Do follow the format below, because it will help us out greatly in responding. If you do not, it's possible your bug report will be misinterpreted, or worse, lost!

    Read BEFORE submitting your first bug: Reporting Bugsā€¦ QA 101 Document
    • Search for your bug before posting in order to avoid duplicate reports.
    • Only reply to an existing thread if you have additional information for the reported bug. ALL extraneous commentary will be deleted to avoid cluttering the reports.
    • Keep your bug report short and factual.
    • There is no need to submit crash logs. Crash data we require is automatically logged.
    Bug Report Template
    1. Title:
    2. Reproduction Rate:
    3. Blocker?
    4. Details:
    5. Steps to Reproduce:
    6. User Specs:
    To get started, use /bug in-game (/devbug if on QA) to auto-create this template. It will even auto-fill some of the required information and open the browser for you. Then take the information that was just saved to your system's clipboard and paste it into a new QA forum post. Thank you bug hunters!
Dismiss Notice
This Section is READ ONLY - All Posts Are Archived

Combat Feedback for R5

Discussion in 'Release 5 Feedback' started by skyflash, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. Mishri

    Mishri Avatar

    Messages:
    3,818
    Likes Received:
    5,595
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Great Falls, MT
    Sounds like an action oriented game that I'm not interseted in playing. I don't want to push something to dodge. I don't mind moving my character around for positioning effect or avoiding the lava. But I don't want to swing or shoot or dodge actively. I want all that to be automatic with a strategic choice for when and how I use my skills.

    In it's current state the combat seems to buggy to even decide what's going on. let alone what it will be like once it's fixed and works properly and we get the deck system. but that is an entirely different argument. I enjoy the strategy of having the right numbers of skills in order to predict about what I'll get and when to use them and when to save them and when to combo them.

    I played it a bit on my lunch break and it does play better than it did last night.

    Like others said, this wasn't designed to be a fun and engaging system yet. it's supposed to be mostly functional. can you kill things? yes. can you die? yes. it works.
     
    Khloec, NRaas, Olahorand and 6 others like this.
  2. Eriador

    Eriador Avatar

    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    5,187
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Location:
    Here!
    For me this one was much much better than R4.
     
    tradyblix and Lord Baldrith like this.
  3. Seneth

    Seneth Avatar

    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    This isn't even an alpha; it's pre-alpha.

    Any "fun" to be had comes from watching the game progress from release to release. I don't see any point in complaining that an unfinished system isn't fun. That should be expected.
     
    NRaas, Kirthag, Kaisa and 2 others like this.
  4. PrimeRib

    PrimeRib Avatar

    Messages:
    3,019
    Likes Received:
    3,581
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm OK with some throttling system for skills. So it doesn't need to be "whenever." Some skills should be pretty spammy but others should be more advanced things which need certain conditions and opportunities.

    This system for initiating combat feels weird. The system for targeting / facing feels weird. I like the FPS style Neverwinter uses, but this ripples throughout the game. You kind of have to choose between WoW style systems which need targets or just letting the mouse target.

    And yeah, active avoidance is simply a must. I'd really like to see dodge, block, cc/interrupt built in like auto-attacks. Most modern games have dodge, ESO is an example with all three.
     
    Time Lord and Kaisa like this.
  5. Sardonyx

    Sardonyx Avatar

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    8
    [​IMG]
     
    Eriador and Time Lord like this.
  6. Kabalyero Kidd

    Kabalyero Kidd Avatar

    Messages:
    1,933
    Likes Received:
    5,240
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Location:
    Beregost, Hidden Vale
    From reading the thread... are you guys looking for a twitch-based combat? Action-MMORPGs are like that, right?
     
  7. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

    Messages:
    9,408
    Likes Received:
    23,132
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    United States
    To the OP yes pre alpha/alphas are not fun, of course we don't like it, but more importantly does what they've put in work and what are your visions and ideas regarding what you've seen? What about likes and dislikes and why? Sometimes I'll grab a video and say here's what I like. Oh well we will live through it. I definitely liked what the lighting did for the game look :)



    **edited..... and they can't make it fun maybe because they have to test it to see if it works first. We just have to make it fun ourselves. **Majoria raises her glass in a toast, cheers everyone***
     
    Khloec, Kirthag, Time Lord and 2 others like this.
  8. PrimeRib

    PrimeRib Avatar

    Messages:
    3,019
    Likes Received:
    3,581
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't want to go too far with that. Sort of. Having .1 seconds of ping or reflexes shouldn't offer an advantage (or a tiny one at best). The point is active defense. My decisions are still bound by things like gcd, cooldowns, some stamina bar, etc. No one should be dodging forever due to a faster connection. Within some given slice of time, decide whether to attack, dodge (i.e. move), block (stand in place but try to cushion blow), cc/interrupt (hit the mob in such a way that his attack fails), or make some big finisher type attack.
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  9. Maximus Katse

    Maximus Katse Avatar

    Messages:
    407
    Likes Received:
    525
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I think R5 is pretty good so far. I see many improvements.

    Did you try R4?
     
  10. PrimeRib

    PrimeRib Avatar

    Messages:
    3,019
    Likes Received:
    3,581
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Right. Although I hate the name. This should be the default "block" skill for a light armor wearer. i.e. stand in place and evasion tank the next blow. "Dodge" should really be my "jump out of the way" skill.

    We'll see how the cards work.
     
  11. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    6,853
    Likes Received:
    26,474
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    Ok gang, here's some of my thoughts from reading all these field reports from the PvE combat encounters that may of may not seem relevant;

    From some gathered reports here, I get the feeling that it's the insecurity of it all that is in some way connected to our SotA Combat Card System. A system I believe that has yet to come in it's final simi-randomized configuration. In my opinion in games past, we have become zombies that enjoy never having to feel any insecurity, because in most games, there comes a mastery within our killing tactics as a system of repetitive events becomes the blood that helps us feel "very secure" with even tackling the most fierce of monsters.... "I want to be able to do this and that"... but all with a hidden quality of the want for a domination to come to us. With this in mind, I don't think we're thinking with our SotA heads yet and are stuck wanting that zombie way we did everything with other games.

    The next thing I will mention, is ... "remember all those rants we had in last release about the combat there in R4?".... our PvE/PvP knees tend to have a bit of sharp reflexes aye? Because now we have that being "tested"<--<<< a very key word that one is here aye? And so I'm not going to "Like" Knight Commander Tyncale 's Post here this time, maybe later ;)

    Now this brings me to my next comment, which is an inquiry to you all. Sometime soon we will be "testing"<---<<< there's that key word again ;) Testing our PvP combat which will also help our creators to do what they do best, which is "Get back to Work on Our Game!":mad:

    So if anyone is interested in seeing just how a player blood bath SotA style can be for testing purposes... just click the thread link below...
    "Or Create One of Your Own So We Can All Begin Posting There", so we can begin our gathering.... guilds and everyone invited for such a gatherings discussion...
    I have to put that disclaimer:rolleyes:up there because there are many "Doms" in our PvP crowd that may wish to lead our discussion, which they're most welcome to do so.
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/who-will-be-waging-our-first-pvp-war.9707/

    I looking very much hoping not to miss such a grand PvP encounter.... "because the combat animations of the PvE look fantastic!" :D
    PvP times X50-60 anyone? it would make a great hunting party afterwards ;)
    (Get a really nasty dungeon ready for us all too Portalarium) <---<<< :mad:"Now Get back to Work!":p
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  12. Lesni

    Lesni Avatar

    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    2,020
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Novia
    Ever played Dwarf Fortress? Losing is FUN ^^

    True. Im having trouble too in damage avoidance. But then again it has been stated that you CAN lock your what ever skill in your bar -> NOT random, like 6 months ago, sure if you dont read everything you dont know this. Not sure if it was in mega combat post or where. Anyway. Skill locked? fine, but you are not going to get to use it in combos, that will apparently be major part of this.


    Incoming joke: What in earth you are thinking when going against skeletons with flesh rot? Polishing their bones? :)/joke. I think devs have mentioned something about preparing for combat...several times? (choosing your skills for THAT combat)

    Ok devil got me bit here & I apologize but I dind expect balance and there has been several threads complaining about random/"card"combat with out reading stuff but I am not defending devs either here, combat is just way too early and raw to do much yet. I suggest we see next time at r9+. Im not sure how many "pre" words should be put before Alpha that all of us would get real impression that normal game companies at this stage would post concept art and carefully selected screenshots but heavens sake would not let ppl mess around with it :)

    As company so far Portalarium in my perspective has admirably made changes that we have been suggesting (or mostly crying foul, because 1st reaction is best served with full broadside, what ever the circumstances) Havent seen anything so openly developed to date*

    *This is clearly Starrs way of feeding. By now you all are aware that he feeds on player tears and boy theres a feast laid bare! Now! Excuse me I'm not going to let Starr starve and just go to lich dungeon entrance and wheep some more, alone! Because why the hell not ;)
     
    Khloec and Time Lord like this.
  13. Lesni

    Lesni Avatar

    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    2,020
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Novia

    There are (alot of)times that I dont agree with you but this time you get it perfectly right and you & I agree completely.
     
    Olahorand likes this.
  14. Gubbles

    Gubbles Avatar

    Messages:
    856
    Likes Received:
    2,199
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Corvus Peak

    I'm enjoying the combat progression, or "changes," as you call them. I was also able to run around and kill stuff. It was quite enjoyable. Yes, the balance is rough, and it's not perfect -- I guess you didn't experience this? Sucks dude, let me know if you need an in-game guide, I'd be happy to show you the ropes.
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  15. jiirc

    jiirc Avatar

    Messages:
    2,854
    Likes Received:
    2,896
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I must say that yesterday's dev test felt like a test. Playing today felt less like a test and more like playing a game. Part was a better understanding how things worked, but chances were made in the two patches that were issued today that improved the system.
     
  16. HareKrishna

    HareKrishna Avatar

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I havnt had combat problems at all... I cleared a couple dungeons already. Just go buy a 33dmg Halberd and train fireball, u kill **** Real fast.
     
  17. Asclepius

    Asclepius Avatar

    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes Received:
    5,632
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perth West Australia
    Hmm. So far I don't know what the concern is about. I have to say that I find the combat system a whole lot of fun, and generally it makes things easier.

    I found a sword in a basement (OK, got a weapon...) then went out to kill elves to get some cash. Spent a little time spending skill points and "built my deck". OK, so I'm in combat with an elf fighter. How about a searing light (click), then a fireball (click) and a death ray (click). If there are a few elves about, whirling blades can help. It's usually byebye enemy by then...

    I think it's awesome being able to "direct" combat on the fly. And it's not distracting - just hit the appropriate icon. If an icon stays black, then it hasn't recharged yet; you have to wait a bit to re-use it. Stuff like sword thrust, double thrust have essentially no cooldown time - you can just keep doing that all day if you like.

    On the whole - I love it!!

    [Edit - haven't tried the Lich dungeon yet, but the only way I had any success there is R4 was in a party of 6. Got killed very quickly by myself. That's part of the balancing in this game - there are some places you need to take friends...]
     
  18. SmokerKGB

    SmokerKGB Avatar

    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    2,679
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pittsburg, CA
    Are we playing the same game?

    Admittedly, I'm playing in single player mode, but I have none of the problems you are describing. For me the game is too easy (not like R4 where you needed to hit them 30 times). The skeleton mage seems to be pretty tough, but I can drop one with Fireball, Lightning, double jab, double jab, single jab, single jab and they're dead, and I have lost maybe 1/4 of my HPs. When I'm gangked by three footmen and a mage and an archer, things get a little hairy, and I have to heal a few times, but I've never run out of mana.

    I started with a mace, then went to a longsword I crafted. Still using the cloth/leather armor (no helm) I started with. I spread my 40 skill across blades, single/double jab, whirlwind strike, light armor, dodge, magic, fireball, lightning, and self healing.

    So fare I'm pretty happy, my rig is very similar to yours, same CPU, Ram, Video (no 3 screens, just a single 27").

    Sorry you're not having Fun, but I'm having a blast...
     
  19. Lord_Darkmoon

    Lord_Darkmoon Avatar

    Messages:
    4,350
    Likes Received:
    14,672
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I think the patch today changed the balance so that combat is very easy now. I don't mind as this way it is easier to test things.
     
  20. Eina Stein

    Eina Stein Avatar

    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    266
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Highiron, Novia
    Good, that was really needed. Gonna check it out when I am at home.

    Guys, I realize this is an alpha, and trust me, I know what an alpha is like, because I am a game developer myself (I am not working in the entertainment sector though). I have no problem with crashes, bad bugs, stuff that is not implemented yet and not fully functional. I also don't have a problem if some of the stuff is not really fun yet.

    But you know, the current alpha test is also supposed to be about the combat system, and the most important thing in a game is for it to be fun. So yes, I am testing combat and I will say if it is not fun. That's the whole point of testing it.
    I am also judging the system by what it is in the moment, not by what it could be in a year, because I do not know what it will be in a year. I can only test what they give to me and not some hypothetical state that it could be in.

    Being a programmer myself and seeing their team size and where we are at now, I am also almost sure there will not be a release this year. The current state of the actual gameplay elements should be much further now, and we should in fact start having an idea where the combat system is going by now. I hope they can increase their team size enough to actually meet the timeline, but at this point that would be like a miracle (unless they have better code they are not showing us).

    Talking about the pre-alpha state... this game is not in an pre-alpha state. Most of the game is actually beta quality, of course also due to the engine used. The housing system is definitely beta, the inventory and general UI has much more capabilities than you would ever see in an pre-alpha. The networking code is definitely not pre-alpha, its mostly stable. I have seen much worse networking code in released games.

    So I am not complaining about the general state of the game at all. The general state of the game is somewhere between alpha and beta state, more towards beta, really.

    But what we are missing is all the stuff that REALLY matters... the actual gameplay. And from what we see (again, I don't have a crystal ball, so I can only go by what I see) the combat system is not even at its first iteration, because the basic features of the intended combat system are not in place yet. And there are normally LOTS of iterations, as the combat system is what makes or breaks a game like this. They really, really need to get down on the general combat system now. We aren't even talking about PvP yet, and PvP will again have tons of issues that have to be solved that influence the combat system. There is so much gameplay stuff missing that I am really wondering how they are going to put it down into their development roadmap in a way that it still leads to a 2014 release. Well, maybe they are internally already planning at summer 2015, there is no way to tell without insight into what kind of code they really have done.

    Anyway, making the current combat system "fun" is a matter of taking the 30 minutes that it takes to roughly balance the numbers. I really wished they had taken those 30 minutes before releasing R5, but at least they seem to have taken them now. Good.