Solution to the Overland Map Debate

I think this is a fantastic idea - very well thought out. I would add that having the ability to "toggle" into the overland mode (with animations or whatever) would free the designers from stiff level design- the arches at zone edges. Seems like an elegant solution.

 

Great... What other key features of the game would you deprioritize for this work, or, alternately, how do you propose to raise the funds necessary to provide the required resources?

 

At an argument's end, is there always a loser and a winner? As far as this one is concerned, I'm afraid so.

 

It just adds time to the game being released. As it is there are new people buying in all the time, so I would assume it's not too different than release would be for the company right now financially, and right now they have the excuse that "hey it's alpha". It's all that's keeping me interested right now, the hope of change.

Call the game "released" and unless there are some huge changes to some things, when people without a Ultima history see things like this map and the strange combat system the public relations "s#!t is going to hit the fan".

However, one flaw in the OP's idea is that right now even though the overland map shows one area north of another etc., the areas themselves only have one exit. That's another reason I hate the overland map, because it causes the "one door room" effect to the zones. They're all laid out so you go in a circle and come back to the "Exit Door". This is terrible for open world pvp.

Anyway back to my point... the zones don't have an "east" exit, and a "west" exit, they have one. So unless I totally misunderstand his idea the world isn't laid out to do what he suggests.

The overland map gives a (false) sense of direction from one area to another, but in reality there is no "east", "west", "north" or "south". The overall world is more like the overland map is the sun, and every town or area is a planet rotating around it.

 

Because everything you want will cost more money. This isn't a huge team tha can change gears and add a ton of scenes to cobble together a seamless world(which it really wouldn't be since there would still be seams where it loads). This is also a feature sold on the kickstarter, one that I find an enhancement to the zone system you brought up.

Next, optional. This is such a funny word on these forums, everyone wants to have optional this and optional that, not really caring how it will affect balancing the game or overall playability. If you use the zone system you mentioned do you not get drawn into random encounters on the map? Either bad or good? Do you get to places faster due to less encounters between a and b? It's nice to have options, I get that, but there has to be a line in the sand where everyone is playing the same game.

 

So you really think they're taking in money faster, or as fast as they're burning it?
I very very seriously think you're wrong.
They have a fuse... They likely know how long that fuse is and know how long they have before they need positive cash flow.

6 Million Dollars just isn't a lot of money when you're developing something with this scope.

 

Not at all... I'm sure they're taking in less than is going out... or I assume so at least. What I'm saying is that I don't know how much more they'd bring in if it was "released" compared to now, but now they have the "well it's Alpha" line going for them. Once it's been released people are going to expect a modern, polished, exciting and fun game, and if it's not, the public relations outcry will hurt.

6 million is nothing, and that scares me. I'm afraid they'll never have enough $ to polish the game enough so it can be released and succeed more than a short period of time, nor will they have enough to do things they know need to be done before release.

 

I have never used an overland map in the past. I'm getting use to it but I would like to have both I guess.

When we are able to use boats on the high seas I think it will be neat especially if we can plot a course to a location and sit back and watch it on the overland map. Then again I would like to be able to just sail from zone to zone and fish along the way. I'm split on this subject.

 

I'm a fan of the overland map, but I would like to see more scenes that have the possibility of exiting directly to other scenes.

 

Well I definitely appreciate your response. I'll have to say though that I believe you're twisting the context of "optional" from the sense I'm using it. When I say optional I mean you can either travel via overland map, or zone to zone. Just like right now it's optional for you to take the underground caverns between cities. It's optional to stop in Braemar on your way to Ravensmoor or you can physically run right over the town on the overland map. It's optional to stop in the south vale traveling the road, or you could simply run over it using the overland map. I'm using "optional" in this regard.

As far as the random encounters, I don't see how that really applies here. The point isn't just to avoid more encounters. The point is whether or not you want to travel quickly (relatively speaking) or if you want to take your time and fight monsters, explore points of interests, grab a few resources, knock out some side quest objectives etc. along the way in a fashion that feels natural as if you were exploring an open world.

Oh also since every player will have this same option available to them, there is no balancing needed. We all would be playing the same game with the same features available just as we are now. I mean lets say the Lunar Rift at Owl's Head had Kingsport as one of its exit locations. If so, would the person who fast travels via lunar rift be playing a different game than the one who ran on foot the whole way to Kingsport? Clearly one is just faster for those in a hurry, and the other is for those who want to "see the sights" along the way.

You also said this was a feature sold on the kickstarter. How are you in any way losing the feature promised on kickstarter with this implementation? You still have every bit of functionality as you do now if an idea like this were introduced.

This idea is being completely blown out of proportion. It is literally just a modification of how you go from zone to zone. Nothing else. Instead of leaving the zone and appearing on the world map, you would leave the zone and appear instead directly in the next zone. I brought up the idea of filler zones simply because it would be odd to leave Northmarsh and instantly be in Kingsport. A filler grassland zone would keep the feeling of consistency but even that wouldn't be totally necessary.

At the very least you get less loading screens if you're exploring zone to zone such as running quests between Braemar and the South Vale or South Ravenswood for example.

I hope people begin to realize this isn't something requiring some ridiculous overhaul of everything. Besides a small bit of cosmetics on the zone exits, you're really only changing the location the game spits you out at after leaving a zone (the idea taken in its simplest form of course). Adding filler zones, or clustering a few zones/hexes together to reduced total number of loading screens is the next step up and even that isn't anything requiring a revamp of major game systems already in place.

 

My play behaviors and the behavior of many in game is:

I look up friends names and ask around who is in what town - then i zone. ( not possible anymore)

I love Owl's Town the most as it has the best connection to other instances as it has the portal directly in the city.

I noticed that i prefer to hunt in instances that have a merchant in the instance available.
Ferig's Encampment. Why: no running, no loading if i get encumbered.
I notice that i will wan't my own house close to a merchant and bank in owl town.
Saves time if i need to sell because overloaded - /zone house. Done.

I had last release my a house in owls town, this time on the islands. Such a difference of usage. I always used my house in r13 for fast travel home. Now i barely visit it.

I love the overworld map and the option it will provide.

I will enjoy the overland map and use it the moment it provides a true incentive, benefit, fun factor. But they will succeed providing it.

That will be for example fun and engaging random encounters they are planing.

For me personally we are not there jet. This i can easy judge on my behavior that i use any option to avoid unnecessary overland map travel.
I did notice many of the very active players only grabing a house in owl's town for travel reasons - as a fast zone option.

Owners of 2 houses with one in owl's town do not mind far away main House. They use the other lot for connectivity.

And i made a little old fashioned rpg suggestion:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...dom-pull-in-rpg-suggestion-demoe-video.20726/




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I feel like the only solution to this debate is to just stop talking about it.

 

So, you never played Ultima?

 

What the OP is actually suggesting is being able to warp to the world map from any location in a zone instead of running to the exit.
Exits would then transition to the nearest zone.

Yeah... doesn't make much sense.

 

The thing to realize is that this has been brought up every release since R1 and the Devs have said it's not going to happen. So no point holding your breath.

 

Just like we should have stopped talking about jumping, swimming, basements....all of which were stated during the KS (and afterwards) that they will not be Ep1.

Sigh.

And actually, no, they did not say scene to scene travel would not happen. They said they would continually evaluate and make it happen where it makes sense to do so:

Let's keep the conversation focused on scene to scene travel. This is not about making SotA a seamless open world non-instanced game. This is about pushing for more of what Chris said above, for which they already have the capability to do.

And like I said here and other threads, players that wish to avoid the overworld map completely can use the underworld to travel.

Having said all of this, the overworld map is looking very nice and shaping up to be an interesting place to explore. I'm very much looking forward to future iterations, as it's going to take some time to get it to where many of us expect it to be in terms of quality, content, polish/bells/whistles and most importantly, making it fun to travel on.

 

I played Ultima Online. Not the previous Ultima games.

 

Missed out on some good games.

Problem with this smack is your adding another variable the debs have to take into consideration. If everyone is traveling n the over world map then they can realistically control encounters. The current areas to explore seem to be close together but they really are not. We are getting heavily into feature creep when they haven't even completed all the promises they have made all ready.

 

Good points but I think those are non-problems.

First, they already have this "problem" with no random encounters if using the underworld for travel. There are no REs in the underworld. And of course travel by Lunar Rifts, /zoning home (I really believe this is going to be permanent but come at a cost), /gate or /recall methods in the future. All those travel methods also bypass the overworld and thus REs.

Second, they can still control random encounters with scene to scene travel. It's simply a random chance that you'd get pulled into an RE scene every time you transition. A message would pop up saying you've been waylayed and boom, you're in an RE. And that random chance can be based on various criteria as well as the scene connection map. But that's just one idea.

Third, if REs are meant to reward vs. punish -- i.e. REs are supposed to be fun events in the future, not boring no-content penalties to travel -- then those going scene to scene travel will miss out because choices. Again, assuming there are no REs for this travel method, which they can certainly implement in any creative way like the one I proposed above.

Not only that, REs only have a 5% chance of occurring as you travel over the scene regions. Not exactly a core part of this game, unlike say, Control Points where it is 100% required to pass through. Or forced bridge encounter scenes, etc.

But yeah, we're not going to see this for quite some time since there are greater priorities. However I think an ongoing discussion has merit since other creative ideas could spawn out of this even if this never happens. Let's wait and see what happens once core systems are complete and they have more time to think about this. Until then, I say let the ideas flow.

 

Then you've never experience the vast majority of the source material for which Shroud of the Avatar is to be a spiritual successor.