Cost of Trainning and Skill Reset

Sadly by your logic a 5 level of any tier is worth 20 times more than a 1st leve of a tier??????

How do you get this - a 5th level is basically just a 5th card to be dealt in a random deck and deffinatly not 20 times stronger in a fixed deck.

Ad again sure for live this MAY seem like sound logic but for now it is WAY off . WAY off .

A 5th level of any tier is in no way worth 20x it first level in ANY tier, Perhaps a 5th Tier should be like 10K at the start and then maybe 500 gold for each extra level in that tier.

or now your math is, well, just plain BAD.

Make the 5th elvel worth having and I could see the cost.

 

Crafting is not a profit center.

Only gathering and selling resources to crafters is, that is if the crafters have any money left, after buying their own skills.

When I buy resources, at the lowest possible market rates, and then craft anything from them, I'm lucky to get back half of what I've spent on the resources.

The only reason I do craft, and sell the goods, is because they were the "failures" when seeking the critical crafting bonus, but now that I have my complete set, I'm no longer doing that.

 

Notice what was said here yes? "When i buy resources".. well that would be a given. Why buy resources? Go kill something on the hidden vale, very small leveled bears or wolves for example.. gather your leathers.. make tunics.. fairly easy to see how that would make money.. or chop down trees, make things there..

if you are BUYING your resources of course you are not going to make much profit.. gather your own resources and craft from there.. resource gathering is also a part of the crafting system

 

i can understand the method of money for high up skills, but everyone problem is there is no way to supply the gold for the skills, it would take me over 3 hours to make gold just by killings a boat load of enemys to sell there 164$ weapons to the weapon vendor, but now with the skills wipe i cant kill anything or make armor to sell on the market and if i do, no will spend the gold to buy it anyway because they will save up for the skills. it would take us forever to get gold. you can make this method work, but just give up a gold way to make some gold please

 

But, if your goal is to get gold (profit), after gathering resource, then crafting is still not a way to maximize your gold, only selling the resources to crafters who are going to lose money, is.

Although I do see your point about gathering as part of the crafting system, but I do like to separate the terminologies, because they are vastly different behaviors on the player part, and have vastly different profit / loss calculations.

If you are going to include the time to gather the resources into a crafting time/money calculation, you are better off grinding npc humanoids that drop gear, and then just selling the gear to npcs in town.

If you are after a particular set of armor/ gear for your character, then buying the resources, or farming for those specific resources does make sense.

 

@Chris
I must be doing something wrong. I haven't been able to net 200 gold per hour for many releases now. I feel like gaining gold is a pretty difficult battle for a casual gamer, namely myself.

Seeing so little gain has actually been pretty discouraging, making it difficult for me to log more than an hour or two a week.

I think trying to balance the economy before the game is feature complete may be putting the cart before the horse. My other concern is that you are balancing the economy based on a certain demographic of players who may not reflect your release-day demographic of players.

I do not envy your task of balancing the economy. Good luck!

 

The new skill system is a killer for the game. Killer like in - it could kill the game not like in "I would kill to play it". If this system stays, I'm done with SotA. When I play, then it's for entertainment, to enjoy, to feel better.
This day should have been a day to have fun - and look what beautiful new things are there.
But what did it become?
Fighting the same lame monsters, for Millions of money, to get back the fun in playing, I had before. Seriously? I am a PvE Player, I enjoyed ALL of the Ultimas from 1 to VII - Serpent Isle. Yes, I played Pagan and Ascension - but - come on - there was no more Ultima feeling in those games. I played Ultima Online from the beginning - and till the end of R18, it was okay. Travelling, finding new things, eastereggs, hints to older games - nice. But I don't see, where is the joy in playing like dumb slaughtering.
Switch to "The Lord of the Rings" and think about this: "Okay, Gandalf is dead. Let's go back into Moria and slaughter everything again." ... and again .... and again ....
Develop this game to something better - at the moment, dear developers, you show only, that you lost your Mojo.

 

LOL I hope you made a video for that!

It cost me over 70k to re-skill, its definitely not cheap that’s for sure.

 

I will give you that it is far more profitable to farm humanoids to sell the drops. However, this leads back to the first point.. skill training to kill said humanoids is far too over priced and makes even the strongest of us fall to our knees like quivering babies after we see 40k flushed down the toilet and still missing on some skills to round off their build.

Also my main point was not the whole "making money" as much as it was the positive that people may now be working on the crafting systems as they can not afford to work on the fighting and changing their decks and such as we are so used to being able to do in the past

For months, many releases. All many of us without interest in it has been hearing is "combat, combat, pvp, combat".. well here is the positive. Combat is been hit with a nerf bat and in order to help fix that we get to work with the crafting ~shrugs~ Least it is what I am doing.. have recovered some of my loss already.

 

I do appreciate that, I was just trying to clarify what I see as a common misconception that crafting (turning resources into gear) is profitable.

Gathering materials is profitable too, but from a profit standpoint, it's best to stop there, and just sell them to another player.

And I do agree with the theme of your main point, the skill costs are way too expensive considering the pre-alpha status of the game.

If developers want us to accept that impermanence of the work we do now (pre-alpha), and to focus on testing, then the economy balancing act must reflect the same philosophy, and must wait until the development is much further along.

The skill trees, nor the economy is that well developed yet, to even start considering the economic balance.

 

Having a loot table or a means to make that money at the exponential rate these skills raise in cost would be a great start before actually implementing the cost of them without giving us a means to actually support paying it.

We agree Unforgiven

 

How much gp You need in game to play comfortable ??

1st my house (village lot+house for 25k) took me 3 days because i didn't know monsters.
2nd house (town lot+house 20k) 2-3 h https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/lich-inadequate-loot-to-difficulty.27268/ for me it was bug for devs it wasn't. Read 8th point, now loot it is reduced
3rd house (village lot +house for 40k) it was gathered in few hours without extra loot from lich like above but there are other ways

Next to profit form resources we should turn off/reduce that meticulous gathering inst like getting up to 100 ore from one node ...
Next thing remove items form NPC, i cant understand why NPC got better items than crafters 1st time i see something like that not counting fun servers with instant max lvl, etc
Next thing balance loot it is funny that minion with 75hp (normal amount) is more valuable than minion with 700 hp
Next thing make normal amount resources to crafting not like 100 animal hides ( idk if that is still correct)
and there is more steps and im to tired to write them down

1 simple skeleton footman is giving items from 120 to 250 .... Just remember to sell weapons to blacksmith not to first better vendor

Could we ask why You won't stop that exploiting ?? I understand that is alpha and You need data/tests/etc but where is border

 

Maybe you should wait until the game is released to play then.
Starting from scratch this wouldn't seem so bad. It's the fact that we need to spend all this all at once that seems so rough. I blew all my gold and then realized I totally forgot to spend anything on crafting skill. Whoops! But really, starting from scratch, levelling up, and with more quests and attendant rewards and XP from those I think these values are totally fine. Frankly, it kinda seemed like gold had no value at all until now.

 

How dare you Sir! I don't make "those" kind of videos!

 

And now, it will cost us 50k to simply test that new logic, again the cart before the horse here.

Why do you insist on levels and skill trees anyhow? UO was so much more immersive without them. Sure, I understand "this isnt UO", but most of us are here, because we miss what that game was, dearly .... Why are you trying to be like all the other MMOs, when most of us are here, because those "other MMOs" never lived up to the experience and nostalgia we feel for UO.

This does nothing to help the casual player though, it is simply shifting the earn rate to different areas of the grind-fest game, this is quickly becoming.

Skills are cheaper at a low level, but that is independent of player level, you are forcing low level players to generalize, and discouraging specialization.

 

I just netted about 500gp by a short trip over to Greymark Forest where I collected a bunch of longswords from elves.

I agree with you though its going to make it more painful to test skills. Taking skillpoints out of a high price skill is itself going to be hard to do, because you're punishing yourself And its also going to make it more painful to test decoration if you also want to test skills, because it takes a lot of money to raise the funds for the right house and decorations you want.

 

How much of a grind-fest does this game need to be, for you to play comfortable?

There are many casual players, who are not going to farm liches for hours and hours, and if they do, they're not going to be enjoying this game at all.

You are not considering other play styles, and this impact on them.

Although I do highly commend you for recognizing the imbalance of the lich lord loot bundles compared to the (lack of) difficulty in reaching and killing them.

But to use that as a justification to support this new skill costs, will only encourage everyone to exploit this imbalance, although as you said, its not a "bug" in the developers eyes, it should certainly be seen as an imbalance.

 

Actually I'm seeing a 4th and 5th being extremely potent. As you get higher levels the size of your deck goes up and you have to throw more stuff in there or suffer slugs for whatever reason. Having more of the same card lets you keep your deck synergy without having to throw useless bloat cards in there as well. As I was dumb and went purchasing some talents that were an expensive tier this time I couldn't afford as many of certain skills that I usually did and really feel it with the card draw percentages being screwy in my deck now.

 

But this isn't a benefit to potency, just an added expense to "stay the same" as you level up, because of the manufactured penalty of increasing the deck size as your player level increases.