Shroud of the Cardvatar? Shroud of the Overlandmapvatar?

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by Endura, Apr 5, 2015.

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  1. Archangel

    Archangel Avatar

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    I haven't, but I'm not fascinated and I won't even try to use it. WoW could try changing their hotbar into dynamic for a week or a month. I guess players wouldn't even notice it.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2015
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  2. austinjg

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    Well, at least the penalty on static is gone. So I can just ignore card combat.

    Overworld map doesn't bother me much tbh. I can understand it as building a seamless world would cost a LOT more money I think.
     
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  3. The Hendoman

    The Hendoman Avatar

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    card combat would be much more palatable if the hotbar was moved from the bottom of the screen to a sort-of transparency halo around the avatar's head. At least THAT way you can still be looking at the action. I have been saying this from the start, i'm surprised we cant simply try it out for a patch and see if it resonates with people.

    THE HENDOMAN
     
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  4. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    I don't know why people still card this card combat. You don't have cards. This is unlike any card game.

    I do think customizable UI to allow you to move UI elements around would be great.
     
  5. Blaze Barkley (RedDeer)

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    I bet that if devs didn't call your skillbar "hand" and didn't name skills that govern it like "discard" "draw" etc. then no one would complain about it beeing a game within a game and that they don't want to play a card game while playing RPG. It's not a card game. It's randomized skill bar.
     
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  6. Otha Livinded

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    This was the way a lot of Bioware's brilliant Neverwinter Nights system operated. The more integrated, easy to use, and invisible the combat system can be, the better the completed game will play, as far as RPG friendliness is concerned. The more abstracted and immersion blocking and removed from the game world belief the system is, the poorer a game it will be. It's a pity flawed instancing has to be a part of Shroud of the Avatar. Maybe is has to be so for the game to be made- but there is no excuse for a badly designed combat system that does not support RPG, let along one which actually hampers roleplay.
     
  7. Blaze Barkley (RedDeer)

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    I think it has to be instanced now (too much work and wasted resources if they were to change into big open world right now), but as Miracle Dragon noticed it may be easily expanded to incorporate hex-to-hex travel with no need of going into overland map at all. In my opinion this would be enough to provide the "big opened world" feel and probably cheaper/easier to manage than an actual huge world. We will get there someday :)

    As for the combat - it slowly gets better and I bet it will continue so until most of us are satisfied. We have free attack now and some skills begin to be direction based as well - this is a step in the right direction (although it is pretty clunky right now). Also, the combat can become more immersive with some changes to the UI and keybindings but I guess this can be dealt with AFTER completing and polishing the combat system itself. Afterall, it's not that hard to imagine ways of making current interface less obstructive or even not visible on the screen most of the time, but it would become less resistant to changes which WILL happen for at least a few more releases.
     
  8. Otha Livinded

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    It would have to move a long, long way to become open and immersive in the ways that UO were. Did you experience UO to understand what it is we are missing from that experience?
     
  9. Blaze Barkley (RedDeer)

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    Yes, but I'm a gamedev myself and I understand why we can't have some things right now. We COULD have them if some other decisions were made in the beggining. Right now we need to work on the next-best-thing.

    Consider this:
    We have instanced zones, yes. Right now we don't have stable nor big enough money-flow to build the whole big no-boundry world from ground up. Now imagine adding zone for each hex of overland map (right now we probably miss a looooooot of them) which can possibly happen in the future. One by one. Low cost. Even with our current money flow. The devs need to be smart however (I hope they are) and do it in such a way that the zones can be merged toghether into a big map without generating a lot of problems. If all the hexes become populated with zones that connect nearly seamlessly (I REALLY hope they do it like this even now...) then we can make a big switch from instanced to open world with reasonable costs of merging everything toghether and redesigning few bigger areas. This IS possible. Simply switching to big opened world right now is too expensive and impossible at the moment though.
     
  10. Otha Livinded

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    Yes, I understand the costs of an open world and the limitations of budget in a smaller crowd funded game like Shroud of the Avatar. While I really hate the abstract and less realistic products of instancing- I can bear it- but only if combat handles in a fashion that seems natural and realistic and immersive in a RP friendly way.

    The combination of creaky, abstracted combat and bum instancing combines for a really awful RPG experience- particularly in a game that touts itself as some form of spiritual successor to UO.

    UO managed a truly free, open world where the systems like combat, and housing and crafting acted as tools rather than cumbersome stumbling blocks that got in the way of roleplay. I think that quite a lot of gamers who grew up on the carrots and mazes of WOW have no idea what a game that offers actual freedom and real roleplay options is really about.

    Today there are games that are pointing back in the direction of UO.

    Archeage, for all of it's horrible faults with it's western presentation, has wonderful open exploration and a seamless, transitionless world with fabulous, lifelike physics. It really points the way to the future of RPG gaming, offering cities that feel alive and "explorable" from top to bottom. You can meet with friends somewhere in town, ride out together, encounter other travelers in route, compare notes, and seamlessly engage in hostiles a bit further out.

    Combat in Archeage is of the tactical, stand and fire-combo variety- but- it has a lovely triple class system that is interesting and hearty, with hundreds and hundreds of possible viable combinations.

    The Repopulation is looking to offer a skill and crafting system quite reminiscent of UO. You can basically do what you want, and your skills get better the more you sneak about or cut down trees. It doesn't abstract matters or draw you out of the game world, no matter what you are doing- it's the act of doing that makes you improve, which, while it can be taken advantage of like every other system, is nice because it feels like your character's actions matter.

    Sometimes, a simple, elegant system simply cannot be improved upon by making it more complicated. Sticking square wheels on a car might by novel and pushing the envelope of automobile design- but that doesn't make it a good idea. The whole bringing a "card deck" into the combat system of an otherwise RPG friendly game where you can set your avatar's table in her house, or chop down a tree with an axe and build a new dining room table on what appears to be a workbench is frankly a rotten idea, from a gaming conceptual standpoint.

    It's akin to those square wheels- bumpy, jarring and doomed for the junk bin.
     
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  11. Beaumaris

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    I appreciate newcomer reactions to the deck system.

    However, I think as folks study it more they will see that the system, as it stands today will allow for more customization and differentiation than most other games we can think of. The system allows: 1) locking all skills, 2) selecting and rotating all skills, or 3) something in better. It is totally customizable, offering more combat choice, customization, and differentiation than most other games I can think of. I think we will appreciate this even more as the skills are finalized and honed. Games that provide choices are the best games, and this system is providing us with a lot of flexible choices.
     
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  12. austinjg

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    I'll probably just stick with static. Randomness in my battles tends to annoy me.
     
  13. Helseth

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    This is exactly how I feel about UO. There are a lot of kindred spirits here.
     
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