Shroud of the Cardvatar? Shroud of the Overlandmapvatar?

I would like to have a discussion about the card system. I have learned it. I have given this some consideration and thought. After several attempts, I absolutely want nothing to do with the card system of casting. It certainly hinders many aspects of what i thought this game would and should be. But who am i? This is not my creation, right? A lineage often imitated but never duplicated. Ever since my days in UO back in the mid 90's. The experiences i had then in those days will never be forgotten. I yearn for that satisfaction in todays offerings. Sadly, i can never fill the void left behind by what Ultima Online was to me. Searching for that "new" has kept a hole burning in my wallet trying every game, pre alpha, alpha early access, beta...

The experiences i had from traveling on adventures through forests, down roads, from moongates. Marking runes, Walking around shopping for UBER Barbed Kit pieces! Player made landmarks burning into your memories along the way, Forever. Running into Pvp. Running away from Pvp. Hiding and stealthing my way around conflicts with an occasional looting as i pass through undetected. That is what gave UO that element that no other game could. In a time when technology wasn't offering eye candy graphics and realism, Ultima Online left you with that feeling of freedom. So much that as the years came to pass, I still remained subscribed to my shard because the gameplay was on point(even after the graphics standard in games had been raised). This is why you hear so many gamers speak of UO like a lost love whom fell in battle, never to return again.

Lets fast forward to 2015... Shroud of the Avatar. You Built it. But will i come? As a caster do i like this card system? NO. If i am a trained mage, why am i dealing with spells firing off randomly on my hotbar simulating a mental disorder... Can my Mage not make up his highly trained, focused mind? I cannot cast a given spell when i want to. If i do it is then a fixed glyph hindered by more systems and glyph trees we do not like. The card casting is like a game in itself. I cannot pay attention to what is going on Nor appreciate any of these beautiful models or work you've done in the game because i have to constantly stare down at mixing combos with glyph icons, so on and so forth.. Trash that is absolutely atrocious. My intentions are not to be rude or offend any developers but i cannot do this. I know this is Pre Alpha. The time for development and constructive criticism. Yes it is something "new" and noone is doing this. At the same time. Nay.

What do i want? Well let me explain it this way. Back in the 90's i couldn't afford gaming peripherals if they even existed at the time. I set macros on regular keys. I did not have the luxury of 18 G keys on my K95 Vengeance keyboard i have today. What does this mean? It means i am ready for UO macros like never before. I love opening my spellbook and dragging spell tiles (Glyphs). Or setting up keys and casting the spells i want to when i want to granted i have the mana to do so. Not wait while my hotbar sequences through randomized probabilities of spells until becoming available. What the heck?!?! I am here to play Shroud, not Glyphs of the Avatar.

The only other mention that i wanted to rant about is the Overworld map. I am not a fan of this system AT ALL. I know this game is not about me, but i feel like i am speaking for many. The game is hindered bad enough as it is with 50 load in screens happening everywhere you turn instance after instance. Completely ruining emersion. Traveling, exploration, meeting and greeting. All of which are non existent outside of these instances. Player interactions and experiences are cut short upon accepting these systems in the game. Is this your vision of this game? I shouldn't even have to explain. Instanced games like this SUCK. Plain and simple. I have a 6 core i7 turned up backed by 2 strong GPUs and 32 gigs of RAM running on SSDs. This is 2015. Your young Britanians have jobs and nice toys now. Lets see a map happen here guys. I am ready to pledge CASH to fulfill my void i've been waiting to fill. I will be here to see what happens with the development. PLEASE. NO OVERLAND MAP. NO CARD SYSTEM. If this is what we all hoped it to be I'll sub for 10 years.

My love, You are back in my arms again.. I can feel you... I have awaited this for so long.

 

Welcome Endura!

 

If you had fully explored glyphs you'd have discovrred by now that you can play with a locked action bar amd it works just as well as the deck system. Source: I have cleared all current content using both unlocked and locked action bar, neither playstyle is easier or harder.

As for your exoectations for the game: While much of this game is inspired by UO, It is not and will never be or feel like playing Ultima Online. You will never find anything that does.

Also: Don't judge a book by it's cover, don't judge a game by it's alpha. Give it some time. The game's not even half done yet. Just don't expect it to ever feel exactly like playing UO. Shroud is it's own game and it's meant to feel like it.

Overland map is most definitely here to stay, and a large part of it is that it's nearly impossible to have a seamless map with unity and the game is intrinsicly tied to the unity engine. Sorry if that is a deal breaker.

 

well welcome and goodbye looks like you have made up your mind the game will not be what you want?

Sorry you are not happy, perhaps come back in Beta and take another look.

 

Overland map is here to stay. I heard it was a limitation in the Unity engine that they use, likely a decision from when this was supposed to be a mobile app.

As for the card system, yep. It's a divisive issue, for sure. The devs have mentioned it before, but there hasn't been much talk about how they'll change it, or if they'll change it.

 

I am not going anywhere. I do love the game minus the overland map and the card system. I explained my reasons. I know this is in developmental stages of Pre Alpha. Just food for thought. This is what Alphas and betas are for. Consumer feedback is important. I could accept the overland map as a personal map that would function when say pressing Alt+M. The Overland Map could then be viewed, expanding over experience as i discover new territories with my Character. It would open up new segments of my Overland map as i progress through large areas without interruptions of "defend yourself" encounters with a wolf pack ect. You would see all sorts of life throughout the living world around you. Not scenarios created upon instancing. It would immediately gain immersion that it lacks with the current heavily instanced system. I am trying to make a point. I am not bashing. I am trying to bring up a debate here. Please no bashing each other.

 

It was never supposed to be a mobile app no matter how much you claim it to be the truth..please point anywhere in the kickstarter that it was, or stop spreading that falsehood.

 

I agree, SotA was never marketed as a mobile app. You might be thinking of Ultimate Collector, which was a FB game from Portalarium about 4 years ago. SotA and Ultimate Collector are not the same game. They aren't even in the same ballpark.

 

In terms of the whole mobile app thing.......hope this clears it up (13:17):



I also asked the question way back in 2013 however it was confirmed the focus was PC/Mac/Linux
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/mobile-device.2629/

 

There are so many of these damn interviews to look through from over two years ago. Here's one where he's referencing making "a mobile version" of Shroud. You may think, "Well, down the line," except that it is (by his own admission) the reason why we have an offline/solo version of the game to begin with.

I also just saw Envy posted a video clip of him saying the same thing, in more or less words. If you followed RG from around 2011-2012, about the time Zynga (the devil incarnate themselves) was slated to publish Ultimate Collector, and followed his speeches and interviews, you'll know his outlook on mobile gaming as the "future". The fact he wants this to be mobile friendly means making the game inherently accessible, from the beginning, for mobile devices. Otherwise, why the crappy overland map? Niche game or not, you can't market "exploration" and "instance-based overland map" in the same sentence. What about the card system? Love it or hate it, it isn't intuitive at all - for a mouse and keyboard. Touchscreen, though?

I can't believe people aren't piecing this together themselves. It's pretty blatantly obvious to me based on where he stood 3-4 years ago when he launched this along with the mechanics (combat, travel, SPO/FPO/MMO variants) we're seeing today. Add in the interviews he's had about making it mobile friendly and you wonder how the two aren't connected? Sure, maybe the Kickstarter was for a PC-centric game, but how can you not think this brainchild didn't start off as a mobile-centric app, that its basic mechanics aren't being directly affected by that?

 

Hear, hear.

 

Piecing it together and it being fact are two completely different things. The offline mode/SP mode wasn't there to support the mobile version, it was a part of the vision from the start that it would be a different way for multiplayer. Yes, even during the kickstarter they were talking about ways to make some of it playable on a mobile app version, not the overall game however.

I feel you want to see it that way and are making jumps to seeing it that way, when it just isn't. Having issues with design or what not is not the same as fact.

The reason we have an offline version of the game was because of fan outcry during the kickstarter. people demanded it and they said they didn't see why they couldn't and ADDED it to to the kickstarter.

I'm honestly not seeing how you got there, and as you said before that it was that way and I was wrong, I guess now I'm proven right.

 

This. Right here. This is a pristine example of rational debate. I can't say I agree with you, but I applaud you for your approach. Take my like and my respect!

 

You said this after I posted a quote from Lord British himself? Really?

 

Hey I'm going by what actually happened during the kickstarter, you can post all the silly videos you want, it doesn't help.

 

My understanding is that Richard Garriot's vision of the 'Ultimate RPG' was going to be a game on a social platform, that has the quality and depth of a traditional computer game. A game that 'light gamers' who have only experienced Farmville and Candy Crush, would be able to get into and enjoy, as well as their more serious gamer family members and friends, in the same game, each enjoying playing together at whatever depth of gameplay they each personally enjoyed. At least, that's how I read the write up on Portalarium's site 3-4 years ago.

And yes, I believe they wanted to make it fully playable on a mobile platform at first too. However, when they began to tease gameplay a year or so before the kickstarter to gauge potential player-base interest, I think they found an overwhelming number of fans of the new project asking for LB to come back and embrace medieval fantasy, on a computer-based product like they had with the Ultima series. The team had to make a decision, if they were going to become crowd funded the scope and direction of the project would need to change a bit, to be more appealing to their potential 'backers'. That's when I believe 'Shroud of the Avatar' was born. Even up to the kickstarter, LB was still trying to keep the game reigned in to be playable on portable devices, which yes, probably is half the reason for systems like more strategy-based deck combat, and an overworld map allowing smaller manageable chunks of the world to be loaded at a time.

These are tough issues that all games have to work through and decide on. I feel that the choices made for this game have numerous good features, that outweigh the bad:

Overland map: Sure it doesn't feel quite as huge as one massive world you could walk end to end in without load screens. But now we have the ability to see new content constantly being added to the game without having to shut down the server (there's still just one server - no Shards!). Now that we can see and talk to each other while walking around on the map, and with NPC's coming to wander on the map with us, I think it's an excellent method of fast travel. Some have requested that you could choose to zone directly from hex to hex, and only go to the map if you specifically want to, and I believe they are considering that option.

Glyph Combat: It is different. I think the explanation is that in real combat, things never happen in the moment the way you train or plan, and the deck feature reflects that quite well. So many more options and so much more freedom in this type of combat than I've seen in other games, plus the ease to train other skills in game, allows your character to be whomever you want, whenever you want. I see far more positives than negatives here. The ability to use it is pretty simple, but to use it well takes a lot of planning, thought, and practice. That means it will be interesting (and not boring) for a very long time.

Finally, I look forward to see if the team does come up with a way to log into the game on a mobile device, to do 'some things'. Maybe manage our inventories or access the local chat? I guess we'll just have to wait and see..

**This is my opinion, I haven't gone back to scour through old videos or conversed with LB to reveal 'the truth', I've just been following this game and LB all my life, and this is my personal belief of how things transpired.**

 

I was honestly starting to believe I made all that stuff up, losin' mah mind. Thanks for remembering and sharing.

 

Hi Endura, and thank you for opening up your heart and sharing your experience regarding your Ultima Online days. I too have many very fond memories of my days playing UO that have never been repeated in any other game I have played. For me some of the changes has been in myself and how I go into a game, and part I know has been that the new games did not facilitate the game play and flexibility in what your character could do in the same way that UO did. Now I understand that is hard to let go of thinking you won't be able to feel that again, but also there lies part of the problem. Now if I just jumped into kickstarter for the first time recently I might have the feeling that this game won't give me the opportunities I had in UO, but truly a cursory glance does not give those answers to anyone. The combat is the combat and hopefully that will work itself out. Also the map if on second look you can see the possibilities it can present to you there will give some answers. Perhaps one day you are walking a long on the map and it is just like any other day you might think at first, when all of the sudden it is not, you sense something different, and yes it is different from yesterday because the ability to drop a hex in has created something new. An invasion has taken over a town, or who knows, you must run and help them. The ability to change up what is going on should be much easier and break up the monotony that comes from most games out there after a while. If each of us have the ability to imagine a world that is changing in our game, rather than one that is static that is the same everyday, is when we can see the vision of this game. So join me in supporting that this game does have those things that matter. If there are some things we have no control over then so be it, but what about things we can support and request from the development team. I always vote for things like having as Richard G says if it looks like it will do something then it will (the interractive things lots of them, open drawers, lay on beds, dance the conga), and that our characters are effected by the world around them, (such as cursed or poisoned and showing that they are; as in comments of feeling dizzy, or woozy, vomitting, stumbling, feeling weak, could be stat changes, and then possiblities to solve mysteries to cure themselves, also using poison to learn poison as in UO and possibly dying). What about the treasure hunting, and fishing up treasure maps, and fishing in general which is coming can be such a wonderful adventure? There is so much that we can affect by our words and ideas at this point. To be upset about things that are out of our hands, not saying you are, just sayin, well when they are that is, and why not push for what this game should absolutely be would be a waste. It is not too late at this point. I will not stop in my beliefs for this game and what it should and could be. We are very fortunate to be here. I still vote for combat to get to be a system that we can all enjoy and of course everyone should keep voiceing thoughts on that, and the map, well that is interesting in itself, and really I have grown to appreciate it and see great possibilities in having it, I do not want it to settle and miss out on opportunities of how wonderful it can be, so hopefully it is going to be wonderful with caravans running accross it and wonderful story like roving encounters, not like they are now at all, and dragons flying overhead. There is so much still to do. Thank you all for being on this journey with me. **cheers**

 

I can attest to this first hand. I do wish it had a more visual component in the field of vision where the combat was actually happening. Having my eyes drawn to the bar frequently definitely detracts from the system.

 

Endura took the words exactly out of my mouth. I found this game and have started reading the boards etc.

I will not be able to adventure off in a seamless world as a thief prowling around player villages?