Open PvP with full loot everywhere in online mode?

Even as PvE'er/crafter I played long time in Siege, just because they made fel/tram separation, it killed the game for me back then. I like the danger and possibility of losing it all (I will opt for full loot). I got used to it in UO and loved it. It made the game more intence for me. I would add good law system to lands, to "protect" us non PvP'ers but thats stuff for another talk!

 

You are mixing up offline mode with single player mode. Offline is obviously separate, but there will also be an online single player mode, where the player doesn't see anyone else but see other player's houses and vendors. That online single player mode is NOT separate, players should be able to jump back and forth between single player online and open play online.

Also, the current dev intent for separating PvE and PvP players is already to not even allow them to see each other. A PvPer won't even know when a PvE player goes through the same map, and vice versa.

We don't yet know how different kinds of PvP will be handled, or even if they will exist, though.

 

So this is a new type of game for me, so I don't quite understand all the specifics as of yet.
SPO - single player offline?
FPO - somehow stands for selective multiplayer?
OPO - open play online?


Since FPO connects to the server already, and they can see houses and vendors and buy things, why not just make it so that in FPO play you can see everyone else connected for FPO play but only in the overworld? Everything besides towns and overworld would be shared (BUT PVE only in FPO mode) and then handle everything else like dungeons and events with instancing for group play with your specific friends within the FPO system. Is there some hidden reason that I am not seeing that makes people object to the idea of even seeing other people on a PVE server? Would this not solve the problem of "well how will selective multiplayers meet new people?", as they would all be part of the same overworld?

I REALLY don't get the issue, and I especially don't like that people seem to be using it as an excuse to bleed a PVE option into open play mode. That is completely unnecessary and frustrating. Keep them seperate, PVE only and PVP only. I want the option to try to make a character in an open PVP version of this, just like everyone should be able to chose to play FPO or PVE. The main focus tho, should definitely 100% be keeping these two things seperate. I mean, why the hell not? From my point of view right now this seems win win for everyone if it is done this way. If people are allowed to simply toggle it on and off and still have access to the same exact people and the same exact goods, you may as well just remove the option altogether. Please don't do that.

This game will be ridiculously awesome if OPO is a hardcore open PVP version. Plz don't bleed them all into eachother and completely ruin the experience. Pretty plz?

 

Congrats on joining into the disucssion! Your name is pretty indicative of your opinions...

There has been a lot of round-and-round discussion on these issues and I think many of us are waiting for another dev update with more information before we launch into another round of PvP confusion. Just be warned, there are many of us who are tired of the discussion already!

In any event, welcome to the fray!

 

While I agree with you about the potential of open PvP, your views are not everyone's views. Some people want an open multiplayer game, but PvE only. That's fine. Some people like to play the Sims Online. Not my choice, but people like what they like.

If you select Open PvP, however that is implemented, you won't see the PvE players. It's like you are playing Darkfall, and they are playing Lord of the Rings Online. Different games that happen to have the same landscape.

Don't worry about what other people are playing. Concentrate on what YOU are playing, and enjoy your game with other people you CAN see, rather than fretting about the people you CAN'T see.

 

Owain you misunderstand me almost completely. I could care less that people can select open world PVE mode, more power to em. But toggling them on and off or switching between OPO PvE and PvP with the same character is a terrible idea. At that point they may as well remove the option altogether as RPG pvpers will be dissatisfied and no one else will use it ever. Seperating them gives it a hardcore edge, and many different players would try it I guarantee.


Nowehere did I say that I am against PvE and RP versions, I said I am against those who are against a seperate OPO PvP version. So actually THOSE people are too preoccupied with how other people want to play, and with trying to stop it apparently. Not cool.

Thx for the warm welcome Vyrinor

 

Think of is as different servers or versions if you want. If you are only ever in PVP mode you won't know any of the others exist. Your world population potential would be exactly the same if they just released a separate PVP and PVE version of the game.

The way Selective Multiplayer will work is different and difficult to comprehend, but I don't think it will work that far off from what you are wanting. We are all waiting for the devs to release more details about how it will work specifically, but their intention is to seamingly weave this altogether so everyone can enjoy the game.

 

Greetings GimmeUOPlz and welcome to the group!

FPO - Friends online, which you can think of like a group running a lan game where you only see your friends.

FPO mode doesn't see everyone on the PVE server a) because it's not necessarily just PVE. There could be selective groups of PVP who just want to game with their group. b) there is no lan version of this game. FPO will give people who want to just game with their college dorm buddies (lan party) a way to do so. It also gives families who have small children that they may not want exposed to strangers (PVE or otherwise) a way to play the game with their children without fear of inappropriate comments/content/RP. They can 'friend' people they know IRL who are safe to be around their kids and then the young ones and families can play together without fear.

The way I currently understand the proposed system to work, based off of VERY limited information from Devs so I could be way off, is that OPO mode will have PvP and PvE, but instead of one giant server things will be instanced off of peoples computers. The game will group similar minded people (theoretically PvP with PvP, PvE with PvE, maybe even full loots with full loots) as the instances are limited in the number of people who can play. We will all have the same world, but a PvE person will be instanced with other PvE people and will never see the group of PvP people who are instanced together and can't see the PvEers. Basically it will feel like two separate servers for all intensive purposes.

As for crossover, I completely get your worries. You are not the only one. There are economic and all sorts of other concerns people have expressed in a huge number of PvP related threates already. However, I have confidence the Dev team is aware of possible issues and is designing something that will address them. I have heard the Dev team is interested in trying to make it possible for people who don't usually PvP to try it, which is why crossover is even being debated. Not sure how it will all play out, but I wouldn't fret yet. At least not till the Dev team actually gets some things scripted to the point where they can officially release how this all will work. (As opposed to all the debate on how it MIGHT work but we don't really know for sure.)

Anyways, welcome to the forums!

 

No, I understand you completely. You misunderstand me.

Now I am going to spend most of my time in open PvP. However, I also like to play games with my wife. We've been playing Lord of the Rings Online for a while now, and she like to PvE, but will never PvP. She also doesn't spend nearly as much time gaming as I do. So, on those occasions when she is in SotA, I will go to a city, change my flag to PvE (however that is done), and we will PvE together. When I am done, I will come back to open PvP.

So, how does this affect you in the slightest? How does this degrade your gaming experience? It's a big world. How do you know where I've been, and what I've been doing, and why should you care?

When you are in game, concern yourself with the people who happen to be in the same instance in which you find yourself, and keep your nose out of my business.

 

I'm not sure if this has been proposed yet, but what about this idea....

To use the slider analogy, what if the further left (Hardcore PvP) the higher the bonus to XP (for lack of a clear understanding of the progression mechanics) or Resource Gathering, Crafting Success, Gold found? Say +15%

Full PvE (safe)mode might be 0% bonus.

It's a simple solution, but this increases the reward for an increase in the risk.

Thoughts?

 

Very bad idea, in my opinion. Richard Garriott is trying to appeal to ALL RPG audiences. Why should he punish the PvE player he wants to attract? The Selective Multiplayer feature allows EVERYONE to select the ideal game environment FOR THEM. That is the best of all possible worlds.

If I experience a fully populated open PvP world, with a wide variety of people I already know and those who I do not know yet, why should I care what all the other people who restrict themselves to PvE are doing?

If I am playing football, should I penalize you for playing baseball?

 

Hmm...I'm not sure I understand the football and baseball comparison, since I thought we were all playing the same game.

But let's say it's baseball...

Have the slider far right (PvE), and you'll always get a single base hit.
Have the slider far left (PvP), and you might hit a home run, but you might strike out too.

 

I would have thought the comparison would have been blindingly obvious, so I'll clarify.

An open PvP game is full contact. A PvE only game is more sedate. Both are games played with balls, but the details are very different. You don't punish people playing baseball to try to force them to play football. Let people who want to play football play their game as they wish, and allow baseball players the same consideration.

 

Why separate anything....that's the wrong way to go about it. Make a pve server for the PvE players and make the PvP servers for the real mmorpg players. Its not hard

 

A lot of great ideas, but its not that difficult at all.... But being a UO base game I guarantee the majority wants the same stile as Ultima Online. I myself do......nothing beats the way things were in that game....all these garbage games today are so out of hand, and such repetitive chaos trash, it amazes me how many people play and fall for the same game different name crap that is on the market....as I said before. Ultima Online is the oldest and STILL THE BEST GAME EVER CREATED....ever...yeah newer games have the technology, but Ultima still has the excitement and reality, no matter what you did in the world it was a different experience at any given time

 

Ah, but it's not a UO based game. It will have some UO elements, but it has been repeated multiple times that it is NOT UO2. And I can 'guarantee' that you cannot 'guarantee' that the majority wants the same style of Ultima Online. If you want that, go play Ultima Online. Shroud of the Avatar is, in many ways, being designed as a single player game first. Story is very important. There will also be multiplayer aspects, but there is a reason it is not being called an MMO. I know there will be disappointed people on both sides; some want UO2, some want Ultima X. What we'll get is something in the middle, and (if they can pull it off) the people who want different things will never need to competetively interact with each other, and both will be mostly happy.

 

As I understand it (subject to change, could be wrong):

• SP - single player offline. Offline characters are entirely separate from online characters.
• SPO - single player online. Selective Multiplayer, with everyone else visually muted. All NPC's visible to everyone.
• FPO - friends play online. Selective Multiplayer, with only the people on your friends list (or some other very small subset of your friends list) as visible. All NPC's visible to everyone.
• OPO - open play online. Selective Multiplayer, with visibility constantly adjusted to show relevant and important players, as well as those on your friends list. All NPC's visible to everyone.

PvP and death mechanics, for Alpha in December, have not been enumerated in detail, yet.
The only overarching PvP design goal stated so far is: PvP will be consensual only.

 

^
I think you're right on pretty much everything here; this is the full extent of what the devs have planned so far.
I haven't heard anything definitive in regards to how each gameplay mode will be designed, they're just mentioned without any further explaination in the original pledge info and the FAQ, but the wording itself is just self-explanitory like that.
"players who play in the default open multiplayer, Shroud of the Avatar will feel very much like a traditional MMO" is all we get for a dev note on OPO.

Death will have to be designed and ready for the alpha in december of course, but if I recall correctly the alpha will feature only SP - Solo player offline - so PvP won't be possible for anyone except the devs until they feel ready to start the beta period.
RG seems to be astounded by the progress rate of development; I can only hope that means we'll get an early transition to the beta sometime next year.

 

You misunderstand the basic SotA game design architecture. There are no separate servers or shards. You basically run your own server, or join an instance hosted on another players machine acting as a server.

As I understand it, this is how it will go. You are on the overhead map, and choose to drop into a spot in the 3D world. If there are no instances of that spot that exist so far, the game spawns an instance on your machine, and you enter that instance, and your machine is acting as a server for your own instance. Now another person wants to enter that spot. If that player matches your configuration (FPO/OPO/whatever), your machine acts as the server for that instance, and the new player comes into the instance being hosted on your machine, and you can see each other.

If you are FPO and the other person isn't on your friends list, for example, then a new instance is created on his machine of the same area. You both playing in the same geographic area, but in different instances, so you will never see each other.

This applies to PvE and PvP as well, so it makes no sense at all given the SotA design architecture to speak of PvP servers and PvE servers.

 

SotA isn't an MMO.

It's not hard.