Make reddit more positive.. attempt 2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Preachyr, Jun 6, 2017.

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  1. Preachyr

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    From the locked thread.
    My first attempt was deleted for 'calling out a dev', and the message said to try again.

    So let me make another attempt at what Berek is asking.

    Positive: I appreciated Port coming to reddit to actually reply to some things. It had been a long time since they had made an appearance of more than a couple comments so it was good to see a community other than these forums getting some attention.

    How to make it more positive: It would help a lot if Port would not get into arguments with trolls or go back and forth over minor things. I personally would have liked to see them address more of the concerns and questions and suggestions about the game itself and some of the perceived issues around it's development over time.

    For example, they stated a few times in that thread that the game has not changed since Kickstarter and made some comments about how it has always been an MMO, yet that is easily shown to contradict what is still up on the Kickstarter page, which states clearly that this game will 'not be an MMO'.

    This type of comment was made by them a few times on there and pointed out to him to be incorrect a few times also, yet they didn't clarify or expand on it.

    I think in order to help make the reddit more positive, in the future for a case like this it would be very interesting and constructive to see them address the changes pointed out and instead of just denying and ignoring info that is there for everyone to see, talk about WHEN and WHY it changed from 'not an MMO' to 'definitely an MMO'.

    I personally would be interested to hear the reasoning behind it and what prompted the changes in the course of development.


    One more example that I think would have GREATLY increased the quality of the conversation is that they posted this comment
    [​IMG]

    But then when the post in question was linked to them showing that they had in fact asked for people to post 'positive reviews', port never answered back to apologize for it or to tell us that he would remove it or anything at all.

    The thread in question has been deleted since last night, so it appears that he or someone did in fact go and remove it (yay! Good job!) but it would have been even better if he had responded on reddit with just a quick little "hey guys, I was wrong, that actually was posted and it was wrong of us to ask that, and the thread in question has been removed, thanks for pointing it out!"

    That would have been AWESOME! and for me it would have gone a long way to improving the relationship between some people and port.

    This is just an example (NOT a 'calling out') of how some improved communications and simple apologies/thank you's could help to make it a more positive environment and help people to feel more like they can engage respectfully with port.

    Instead, they got distracted by some open hostility and went back and forth with people about things like drinking during the telethon or got into arguments about other outside SOTA forums, and really didn't talk much about the game or issues people were bringing up at all.

    There was some really great suggestions for the economy that someone posted and didn't get a response to. THAT is the kind of discussion that port should be engaging in.

    So basically thats a long winded way of saying, to increase the quality of the reddit and make it more positive, I would like to see port ignore the trolls, and pick more carefully the discussions they engage in.

    I know that many people here think that the entire reddit is garbage and has nothing constructive, but there are most definitely legitimate issues brought up and there are constructive questions and suggestions posted, but they get ignored.

    Engage with and encourage those, and the environment will be a lot better and more positive.

    @Berek Hope that cleaned it up enough for you :)
     
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  2. digriz

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    Well said.
     
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  3. majoria70

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    I don't think we can necessarily make reddit more possitive. People want to complain and get it out of their system. It does not mean that a good game won't be able to push through negatives. I still think our time is better spent here breathing life into this game. Then when something great happens people can share that. There are some really constructive threads going on right now as we try to march towards release. We need to make sure the game has what it needs to keep players playing with our feedback.
     
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  4. Bubonic

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    I disagree.

    I think that Preachyr's suggestions are a very good start (but to be honest, I don't believe that Port would agree), and the only thing it would take for a more positive vibe is to create it. The more positive threads there are, the better the overall atmosphere.

    So go, post!

    Here's a few recommendations:

    1) Don't feed the trolls. If someone posts hate, just ignore it. Don't engage in bickering or unhelpful back-and-forths.

    2) Post cool game-related stuff.
    Screenshots, videos, positive press. Journals. Interesting things you see along the way. Stuff that makes people from the outside, when they see it, become actually intrigued about the game... instead of immediately turned off.

    3) Fight Fake News. If you see someone posting inaccurate information, correct them. "But you said don't feed the trolls!", you say. Yes, I said that. So don't. Correct false information by being respectful, and linking to proof for all to see. Don't say someone is posting false information, just post the accurate info with references.

    Here's a link to the subreddit page:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/shroudoftheavatar/
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  5. Vagabond Sam

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    Do you have an honest desire to make proper attempts at repairing the community? or is it lip service so you have posts to point to to say 'you tried'

    If SOTA becomes as popular as we all hoped in the heady days of the kickstarter, your community will grow and it is very likely that this sub reddit would grow if that ever happened.

    There are various reasons people choose reddit. Often it isn't blocked at workplaces, it's convenient aggregation of all interests they follow or the philosophy of relatively unhindered expression. it's easily exploited for news sources so even media outlets will use it (We were linked to a lot in the last few days when the SeedInvest funding was reported on).

    So, while I am not suggesting any of you start to make this sub part of any type of regular routine, there are some basic community hygiene actions I believe would help you, and us, find some better terms of understanding, if not agreement.

    Enforce your rules of conduct when users use the official forums to belittle and attack an entire SOTA community.

    There may be people who use the sub to express their frustration and are angry with no intent of being constructive anymore, however, that's not a pass to then allow comments and accusations against other members of your community who gather in reddit to be allowed to be repeated ad nauseam. Speaking specifically of accusing us of all being banned, in bed with competitors etc.

    If I could equate it to me posting on forums and accusing @userABC of being paid by Portalarium to come and post on reddit in an attempt to troll us. That accusation on the forum wouldn't remain unmoderated. The reverse should be true.

    Enforce Rule 10

    Nothing bothers me more then the off topic remarks by posters who see something they don't like and post some variation of

    "Threads going to be locked, lol"

    That, to me is off topic and disparaging, often in the first few comments to a topic which leads it quickly to be derailed. A self fulfilling prophesy.

    Why is that ok given rule 10 should be in effect? If posters believe a topic should be locked it should be a 'report button' action and not handled by users employing demeaning replies to a topic that is often posted in earnest.

    Occasionally have prepared of thoughtful interactions with sources outside of your forums.

    There needs to be a lot more savvy in dealing with the outside community. Not everyone will use you forums. Building those bridges will be easier now, then later. (Although it will still be difficult).

    Ben Brode (/u/BenBrode ) at /r/hearthstone is a very good example of a developer who interacts with a hugely 'toxic' community in a very positive way.

    I don't think any of this is difficult either. Hard work, but not 'difficult'. Of course, this isn't an exhaustive list of what I think are you opportunities to improve your community.

    I think this is just the first step and that the key is to accept your community is bigger than your forums and that disparity will only increase if SOTA finds success at launch without seeking some effective dialogue.
     
  6. 2112Starman

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    I think they also need to get Berek under control, he is on a terror on the forums right now with deletions and this is one of the biggest things people over there complain about. I post a lot of stuff that I have a feeling will get moderated and they dont, yet something will get deleted because I stared the argument with "No sorry, that is wrong". Think about that short statement and why that would cause an entire post to be deleted. It truly smacks of a more extreme politically correctness worrying that someone may be offended by some light terms that can be used in any argument in any business atmosphere I have been in for 25 years. Heck, watch interactions between Chris and LB, they can get far more direct then that.
     
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  7. Preachyr

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    Good points overall but especially this one!
     
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  8. E n v y

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    Its true reddit can be made more positive just by going there and being positive.

    Granted there are a group of very unhappy people, within that group there is a very small minority (really easy to see who they are) who have made it their hobby to trash the game relentlessly and at every opportunity.......simple answer is to just ignore them and continue being positive posting the great aspects of the game and having sensible discussion over what isn't so great.
     
  9. Vagabond Sam

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    Fighting "Fake News" has a danger when an opinion is mistaken for fact on either side of the fence.

    Understanding why someone believes a fact you believe is fake is a better discussion then trying to correct them with what often turns out to be anther opinion.
     
  10. Bubonic

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    I agree. That's why I said

     
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  11. CarlNZ

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    Port just needs to make an effort with the actual official SoTA subreddit. The one everyone is posting on isn't the official one, while the actual official one is a barren wasteland. If some effort went into making the official reddit active, port would be better able to keep the discussion civil, though perhaps with a slightly more free environment than the forums. There's little point in making a futile effort to control an unofficial sub. If the current users there don't like where the sub goes they'll simply form a new one.
     
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  12. Bubonic

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    Unfortunately, an overseeing force trying to "keep the discussion civil" has always been part of the issue to begin with.
     
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  13. Vagabond Sam

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    I was emphasising instances where opinion is mistaken for fact on either side.

    For example the endless fight over the MMO aspects of the game both sides link to facts, but nothing positive really comes out of it.

    There is a lot of passion in these forums for correcting people and the current context of "Fake News" in the wider media is likely to stoke passion where reason would be of more use
     
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  14. Mototopo

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    Preachyr I am sorry you have to rebuild a post which was simpler, not aggressive, and was just describing what has happened with suggestions on how to improve. When something i was following disappear under my eyes i dont like it at all. I am an adult man, many are here, i am becoming tired to be treated like a child. (sorry for bad english, not my language)
     
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  15. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Complaining to "get it out of one's system" would be one thing. Complaining over and over again about the same thing is trolling.

    IMO there is nothing else to say on Reddit except to point out that many players do enjoy and continue to back the game, and to invite people to try the game for themselves and make up their own mind.

    Might seem harsh, but players who are fretting over the $40 to access the game and play for themselves probably aren't the core demographic that will make this game sustainable long term.
     
  16. majoria70

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    I of course didn't mean to discourage the positive. I guess I'm just ocd for what is going on here to get the game released the best it can be. I would always hope that people can have discussions that help the game to be a better game. so carry on.
     
  17. Kabalyero Kidd

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    Make reddit more positive

    sadly, not going to happen or never going to happen... that particular subreddit has been taken over by characters who are already out for BLOOD... and the only thing that will make them happy is the demise of SotA...

    most of us here, have accepted the fact that things can change and will change and has changed during the course of the development... unfortunately, there are those who are, for whatever reason, can't accept that fact and wants the game they pictured in their minds... that's why they're digging everything that were said 4 years ago and are now using them as ammunition in their non-stop attacks on SotA...

    even if you try to explain rationally... what you'll get in response are links after links after links of previous conversations, talks, messages and what not... and they will keep pushing that because that's all they have... and what they have are pretty good ammunition for an argument...

    they are what I would call, a lost cause...

    if my memory is correct, I asked in the Spring Telethon this question (paraphrasing)... "what are you guys going to do to simmer down or cool down the massive or huge amount of hate Shroud of the Avatar is getting from various gaming communities"

    and I think they gave a good answer to my question... "make a great game"

    but right now, Shroud of the Avatar is not yet great... it's okay, it's playable but it's not yet great... they still have TONS of things to do in order to make Shroud of the Avatar a great game...

    we understand that and are willing to wait and I'm not sure we can say that to those who already gave up... but we can surely say it to those who are just in the background, waiting for a completed game...

    so back to the thread title... Make reddit more positive...

    no, it will not happen and if we try then they'll just use that and spin it to something even more negative...

    let's wait until we finally have a MOAB as ammunition like having a GREAT GAME, maybe then we can "Make reddit more positive" again...

    disclaimer: just my thoughts on the subject and general feelings when I go to that particular subreddit... not trying to anger anyone... :) (if anyone was offended then I apologize in advance... sorry :( )
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  18. Vagabond Sam

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    Anyone who cares enough to share their opinion on a companies product is worth listening to.

    Not always responding or addressing, but it's data on people who were interested enough to buy the box based on the Gabe description.

    Not sure writing off people interested enough to buy in as "not the right demographic" is wise prior to a full commercial release instead of learning what you can from then, even if passively.
     
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  19. Preachyr

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    Thats why I really liked the part where he said

    "Correct false information by being respectful, and linking to proof for all to see. Don't say someone is posting false information, just post the accurate info with references"
     
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  20. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Sure- nothing wrong with listening to feedback. I'm not saying write those people off, but I am saying that I believe $40 of value is already more than present in the game. Even if not $40, then a prospective player can spend $5 to gain access to these forums here where they can learn a lot more about the game.

    What I am saying is, don't just ignore the trolls. Ignore the people who are listening to the trolls as well. It says a lot about a person who can't recognize an Internet troll for who they are.

    In earlier times in my life, I used to manage a high-end wine bar. We served fine wines; that was our thing. Occasionally somebody would come in asking for a white zinfandel. I would inform them we have no white zinfandel, but if they would like I could recommend a most delicious riesling.

    Some people chose to risk the $12 and try something new. Those folks were invariably pleasantly surprised.

    Other people became "offended" that we didn't carry white zin and felt that we were being too "snooty" with our offerings. That's alright. There was another place down the street for them that better fit their needs.

    TL;DR SotA doesn't need to be everything to everyone in order to be viable financially. They need to figure out what their core demographic(s) is/are and focus in on those people.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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  21. digriz

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    The problem is that moderated forums can become an echo chamber. A lot of the people on Reddit, me included, just honestly want the game to do well. But aren't comfortable with 'walking on eggs' to express our feelings on how some of the game has failed to meet expectations. That doesn't make someone necessarily a troll. that word is thrown around too easily. When you opress someone elses opinions, you're going to get blow-back. Hope that was constructive.
     
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