Death Decay Poll

Noice Bluto :

 

So people who play 1 hour a day should be as good as people who invest 5 hours a day? Like people who work 4 hours a day should get the same money like people who work 10 hours or what?

When you get punished for your hard work, why bother doing it? If it is unfair, why do we have levels? Make everyone the same!

 

[QUOTE = "Cordelayne, Post: 830577, Mitglied: 134912"] Noice Bluto: D:

[MEDIA = youtube] 8zc0BI7T1LA [/ MEDIA] [/ QUOTE]

Auch geht das Deutsch lernen! D

 

If the game is work, then the problem is at a much more fundemental level.

 

Words of wisdom. If they did that I think alot of problems and discontent would go away. I know I would be happy with the system.

 

Meine Meinung über den Skill Verlust durch "Tod" Ohnmacht, das wäre für mich das passendere Wort, ist dass das total übertrieben ist und nichts mit meinen erlernten Fähigkeiten zu tun hat.

Ich habe kein Problem mit einer "Strafe" wenn ich in Ohnmacht gefallen bin, dies sollte aber nichts mit meinen Skills zu tun haben.

Je öfter ich in Ohnmacht falle, desto länger sollte die Strafe sein um wieder voll einsatzbereit zu sein.

 

As you may or may not notice, it was a compare. But yes, playing a game to achieve something you want or like can sometimes be work, like in the real life.
If you are in the game and you spend your whole weekend in the mine to sell some ore cause you want to buy a big house .... it is work ... for a achievement.
If you are in a raid group and you train 2-3 days a week to be the first one who kills something ... it is work ... for a achievement.
Level all my Blade Combat Skill up to 100 so i can say i am a true Master of the Sword ... can be work and a achievement.
Get punished (death decay) for the wish of achieving something and rewarded (login bonus) for doing nothing ... well then yes, the problem is at a much more fundemental level.

 

Hmm... My problem with death decay in the actual form is, that it is a punishment.. and not a regulation.

In my opinion death decay should be a tool, which keeps the majority of casual and aktive players in a defined levelrange. Not by punishing everyone but by using the death decay as a form of hardcore "over the top" tier.
And in a system like sota, we need more regulation than just decay. For example:

1. When you reach 1000 skillpoints (just a number.. dont nail me down on that) your overall gain rate slows down by 50%. So you have to spezialise somehow, and cannot have all the resists and spellls at lvl 100.
2. Til a skill leveln of 80, you have no decay. Over 80 you loose exp from pool, ore skill when you dont have a pool.
3. Over a skill level of 90 you lose SKILL exp, not pooled.. But just "some".. Like .. dont know.. "15 minutes of gameplay"
4. Over 100 you start loosing a ton oft exp.. Like one death you fall back from 105 in a skill to 100

Yea.. this seems hardcore.. But in my opinion it should be hardcore.. 100 should be like professional boxing league.. And over 100 is like "on of the best boxers in history"
We dont need a game where the aktive players get better and better... So dont listen to those who play and grind without any complains right now.. Listen to thouse backers who refuse to log in, because they are frustrated...

But yea.. i dont think we could expect any major changes from the actual system...

 

If you're going to make the game hard, then make it hard! This death by 1000 papercuts thing is so lame. Either remove the penalty completely and let people grind away or go permadeath. Make people terrified of adventuring in a harsh, dangerous world. Imagine the level of excitement you'd have from surviving a run out into the world! You wouldn't have to worry about caps because no one would live that long! The player controlled economy would take on a whole new meaning. Mediocre weapons would be the new epic weapons. You wouldn't have all of these godlike artifacts in game because no one would ever make it to those 5 skull areas much less survive them.

 

lets find a mediocre of that.
If people can develop ahead with no limit, then how can one catch up?
Yes we need to catch up, because of PvP is a significant element of the game!
Economy too and to be able to sell and make a profit you need to catch up in crafting skills (does decay involve crafting skills?!?)

I dont want to limit people who play a lot that way they arent the most powerfull chars anymore, but i want a system (actual death decay is what our soft cap is) that limits powergaming in a way, that casuals one day can catch up to a modest high level what is competetive. What we have now is that a group of well skilled chars between Adv Level 70 and 90 are wiped in sconds by this guy with 155 Int with 5-8 blows of his spells - i think a group of 3 medium casuals should have a slight chance to kill the strongest char in the Game - 5 and even the Uber Avatar need to consider to maybe better run now.

I hope Death Decay or whatever Softcap we have will ensure, that all players from super casual to super powergamer will meet in the middle, where the powergamer is still the strongest character, but a couple of super casuals are still a threat to him, when they once have catched up to Levels 80-100.

and i still hope that World Bosses/ Sieges etc... will be group Content for all Online Modes and not solable anymore!!!

That is what i expect from a softcap - however it is implemented - death decay is maybe fine for that, you can avoid dying also, then progress gets slower, but progress is still possible, isnt it?
And Decay should take Pooled XP into account, i think some exploiters may have a couple of millions or billions stored and care less about decay - but thats just an assumption.

 

This will still kill specialization. Lets do a quick check whats better! I level:
----------------------------------------------------------
Light Armor, every Skill 100 = 12,124,240 xp
Air Magic, every Skill 100 = 17,580,148 xp
Chaos Magic, every Skill 100 = 31,523,024 xp
Fire Magic, every Skill 100 = 31,523,024 xp
Water Magic, every Skill 100 = 19,398,784 xp
Earth Magic, every Skill 100 = 32,735,448 xp
Death Magic, every Skill 100 = 38,797,568 xp
Life Magic, every Skill 100 = 36,372,720 xp
Moon Magic, every Skill 100 = 20,611,208 xp
Sun Magic, every Skill 100 = 19,398,784 xp
Focus Skill, every 100 = 42,434,840 xp

112 GMs in total for 302,499,788 xp
----------------------------------------------------------

VS

----------------------------------------------------------
Blades, every Skill 120 = 146,828,233 xp
Heavy Armor, every Skill 120 = 154,985,357 xp

19 GM in total for 301,813,590 xp
----------------------------------------------------------

The 112 GMs dude will lose 1x Decay and the dude with 19 GMs will lose 2x Decay cause he is over 100.
Does that looks right that a jack of all trades benefits more then a guy who just want to play melee?
Who do you think will kill more?

Thats how PvP works, there will allways be a guy who is stronger cause he trained more. If you want to beat him you have to train too. He will slow down more and more when he gets to 120+
And if this is still a problem, search for enemys or a arena where you can fight against people who are the same level. Like in PvE you always fight stuff what you can kill.

edit: Its like you want to fight against your bodybuilder neighbor who pushes 200kg and Porta comes and shoots him in both legs to make the fight more even.

 

Your math example is exact what i think should not be possible and the reason why i think decay is way to low.

 

1. I think... when the strongest players are thouse, who have to most time and motivation to grind.. than.. yea.. than we have a problem here.. Specialy for me, thats exactly what i didnt want. Why i turned my back to games like WOW. Because i want back to a time where playerskill is more important than gear and skillpoints... A game without a huge gap between casual and progamers...

2. @Tetsu
yea.. didnt say my system is well polished it was an example.. I just want to say we need regulation that leads to a small level range where 90% of the non noob players meet after a acceptable amount of time.. The progamers will be there after 1 month and the casuals after 4... It should be possible for everyone to participate in every aspect of the game without incredible frustrating ecounters even after month of gameplay..

 

If you take his premium gear away, what provides 60 Int, he is just a normal guy with an Int buff. So nerfing crafters again ?

 

You can only achive this if you set this game to limited Skillpoint ore change the XP caps. The EXP is liniar but we need a curve if you want people hold in a mid range.

This would not change anything! If i have 19 Skill all on 120 i am weaker then a guy with 112 Skills on GM and maybe(just maybe, think of all the passives) he is weaker then a guy who has every damn skill in the game on 80. So the weaker guy has more decay as the strongest (with the same xp spend) and he spend more time for leveling up. It is the same as if you cap every skill on 100, cause the decay is based on the skill level. After some years everyone will lock 100 Skills on GM, no specialization posible.
The only thing decay brings is, that people who play 1-3 hours a day, playing solo most of the time, maybe leveling max 1 hour cause they hate grinding doesnt give a f**k when they lose 10k XP.
But people who play it every day multiple hours, enjoing group content and explore dungeons, searching for risk and challange will lose hours of gametime and get angry cause the lose 300k XP when they die in the dungeon, but only earn 20k xp and 100 Gold in full group for 1 hour fighting. The guy who plays solo will still enjoy the game till he reach this point, but the guy who lose 300k will stop playing content what should be fun for him.

edit:
I dont cry when see people with alot of money and a big pledge, a town, multiple tax free deeds or 1000 CotO's, just because i dont have to money to spend.
But why do people cry who have not the time to play or dont want to grind. Why do casuals bother what progress gamer do?
Should Port Tax everything so the guys with money and many deeds are even to the guys who own just the basic game? So we come to a point where we have fairly the same Deeds and Houses?
Should i say thats unfair a creates a huge gap between the rich and poor? Well i guess not?

 

Yep.. and i think it would be better than the system right now.


First of all, dont compare a broken system to another broken system that 95% of the available lots IG are purchased by backers, and that the goldprices for LOTS are insane, will be a problem for thouse players who join without any intend to invest much money. I think we should not underestimate the number of players who left, because of the itemshop. (2 of 3 people i lurked to the game left for that reason. Just one stayed and turned into a militant roleplayer *waves to stunni* )

The next part is: I dont cry that there is anyone richer... I dont cry that there is anyone stronger.. I cry about the GAP between the playstyles.. You calculate with ~120 GM's.. rofl?? Many players have a hard time even get one gm! You right now are so INCREDIBLE far away from my char... It will take many month or years for me to come even close to you.. Or maybe i will never be that good. It is okay when some players have move time and archive things faster, but it is bad when you encourage this by giving them the opportunity to get stronger and stronger without boundarys.. Thats asia grinder! Lineage! Where you need years to level your chars, and new player dont even have the chance to play at the top.

The motivation to play a game should not be endless leveling. So we need a point where leveling gets so hard that the core players starting to lose interest in leveling further. Because they are strong enough to do anything in game and compete in PVP. So you stop giving a **** about GM's and start to fight for fun, treashure and glory! And when fighting for the thrill, glory and threasure is no fun, it is a gameplay problem! Not a skill cap problem.

 

I hate the current system.
I think a loss over time for skills you never use is ok (-1 lvl per week around), perhaps a small loss while dying (5-10k exp is ok, too). BUT why it must be so easy to do a gm or greater ? You should make it much harder to get this skills higher, so you need no decay system. Have a look at Tetsus posting 6-7 time before, the skillsystem is not fair on all classes, too.
AND if you play more time, you should have more than the others. We not need a social system.

 

its a little bit.. nah... even with a hardcap the hardcore players will have "more"... but.. skill wise...
i more and more get the feeling this is the opinion of the main playerbase. And that the devs listen to that opinion.. So this game develops more an more away from a ultima (not ultima online!) like experience.. So it develops away from me XD Damn..

 

afaik thats not what i know from UO PvP - and to me it's the worst performance spiral like gear/ item spirals and totally :
1. not neccessary and
2. not challenging, but for the OP only an uncritical self congratuation and for the looser frustrating.

 

Lets say everyone has the same level cause magic happens and the decay will close the gap. Is the next thing the casuals cry about that PvP guys all have +15 crafted Gear?
And you cant farm or afford as casual enough money to buy such kind of armor. So people who play more have better gear? So the next thing we have to destroy is the Crafting.