A plea for the single player experience.

Nah, don't look at it that way...then you would have to look at why so many of the single player fans aren't here. Look at the other rpg projects on kickstarter that are single player with more fans then us.

 

I actually wrote an essay almost a year ago about this. While I found a few common elements in people I spoke to, I found that what 'Ultima' was to everyone was really diverse. What made the game special to each person was very personal and not necessarily meaningful to others. I believe that is why when you do a 'which game was best' poll you get very diverse opinions. It's also why when people think of 'spiritual successor' we all have a different meaning in our head about what that is.

 

I'm in those groups, although you could add ultima 9 to that. U8 was instantly not fun and unplayable in my opinion. Otherwise I loved the series and Ultima Online. The single player ultimas were my favorite games when I was younger.

However if I had to have a tie breaker when coming to making a decision on a feature for SotA I would err on the side of UO almost every time.

 

Hey, what about Runes of Virtue players :>

@Isaiah, Personally, I preferred U8 to U9

 

@redfish it felt as if there was no inner power to being the avatar in U8 to me, like it did in the other games. U9 wasn't that bad, except from what I remember I felt like you couldn't travel the world like you could in other ultimas. I think it had more of a linear feel to the game instead of a world where you can travel to and from anywhere you choose. However I still felt like I was the avatar on a mission of virtue.

 

Funny, as an old time ultima fan I really felt UO was a let down in lore and gameplay....I didn't think it looked as good as U7...it lost a lot of what made ultima for me.

 

Well the world was sosaria, and I always imagined they were going to go through all the ages of each ultima game. However Lord British had to leave the project so we probably never saw what they would do with it lore wise.

It was basically the first true MMO as we know it. There were lots of things they did that never has been done before. It's true it was a different game, but as for a sandbox world with crafting, fishing, mining, lumberjacking, and various combat paths... and the PvP was all quite good.

I agree that it lacked many storyline features, but as far as how the game mechanics worked (classless system) etc... When ever I would have a question in my mind which way to go I would err on the side of UO.

 

You know what's crazy is I have no memory of ever actually doing any NPC quest lines in UO outside of the testing I was able to do before the game launched.... merely exploring the world with friends and battling creatures and other players that attacked us. Nothing like the Ultima games previously.

 

The fact that there were no quests was one of the reasons I liked it. They probably didn't have a way to make a single player experience in a multiplayer environment back then, but that's where i think SotA will do what UO could never do.

However the opposite extreme is the everquest, world of warcraft system. You cannot do anything without quests!!! I would rather have no story and be able to gain skills on my own without having to follow a story line. In fact I hope we could play SotA without ever having to do the story. From the bottom of my heart I believe this... We really should be able to play a crafter and never have to do the story line EVER.

This is my feelings... if you want to do the story fine, if not that should be fine as well. I would be very disappointed if the only way to advance in this game was to follow the storyline. That doesn't mean it shouldn't have a storyline like Ultima, but we shouldn't all have to play the storyline, nor should everybody be virtuous. We should be able to do whatever we like in this game.

 

I think we can all agree that the lore and legends of Ultima, From 3 until... okay 9, skipping 8, I'm sorry, and also including UO, that is what is valuable about this franchise.

It's what gives it the depth that other MMOs lack. Now if we can just get the game system up to par....

 

Oh I think it did a very good job of simulating an open world (even if crime and punishment was done very poorly, which led to chaos taking over.) but to me it never felt like Ultima...sure it used the names of cities and areas but it felt like a medieval world simulator (with some magic) with ultima branding thrown on top.

 

It may have been chaos before the murder system was in place, but by the time UO Second Age came around it was most certainly not chaos. Most people worked together, and wanted new players to have a good experience. PKs were a special breed, and so were thieves near banks.

However UO was not in chaos at all. That's not an accurate description of the game at all. I honestly think it was under control after the murder system, and once you became a grandmaster in your weapon skill you could stay alive in most every situation unless you specifically looked for trouble. That's the truth.

The people who got killed by PKs all the time were either looking for them or they never learned any strategy, because if you were mounted you should be able to run from most anything including other players. PKs didn't chase people too far because they tended to like their little stomping grounds. PKs had the most to lose if they died.

 

I've been enthralled by the Ultima series since I was a little kid using my neighbor's Apple II+ for precious moments of time in the world of Ultima II.

When Ultima IV rolled around the quest for the Avatar really really had an impact on me and I found myself comparing my own behavior against that of the 8 virtues. I even ended up using posterboards of the 8 virtues in a classroom english lit. presentation.

Ultimas 5 & 6 were enjoyable and then Ultima VII came out and again my whole world changed. I was enthralled. And Part 2, Serpent's Isle was more awesome sauce. I was crushed to lose Dupre (even though he became an awesome part of the Chaos serpent) but it was a glorious story.

Ultima 8 made me feel dirty. And I wasn't entirely satisfied with it. I'm going from memory (so I don't have a fresh analysis to refer to) but I felt like the guy who is hungry after eating. So that left me hoping that Ultima 9 would satisfy that final itch. The ending was ok (at the time I had no knowledge of story writing or telling) and it wasn't until years later that I learned how badly u9 had been butchered.

Then there was Ultima X:Odyssey. I know, RG wasn't a part of it but I hung on every word of the developing team and each update and tidbit was so exciting. And of course then EA pulled the plug on it just months away from going into Beta. That looked close to a spiritual successor.

So what is SotA? Am I Charlie Brown and Lucy is going to pull the football away again when I go to kick it?

Bubonic succinctly puts into words a lot of my fears.

Will I also get that same feeling of adventure I used to have when I was searching for the shrines in U4? When I opened the chamber of the Codex? Or in U7 the slow reveal of the Guardian and his machinations? I yearn for so much.

And in the videos and forums I see glorious plots of land for sale and epic player homes. And crafting. Days and days of crafting. And hey look how the wind makes the trees move. Well that is wonderful. The environment and the texture seems to be coming together and looks gorgeous.

I will watch and wait and hope and hope and hope that a really satisfying story comes out of this. Everything I have seen so far leads me to stay away from paying money up front.

If I have to wait for the retail product than so be it. I'll wear the rookie retail armor proudly and pay full price for the box version. But only IF this one can feed that need for an epic SP adventure and slake the thirst of this old and tired adventurer.

***

Santre the Swashbuckler warns: Beware, I've a quick blade!
<give 500 gold>
"Enilno is yours!"

***

 

First off, welcome to the forums.

I think that crowd funded development can be a double-edged sword. I'm a huge fan of it, and games like these get made that never would otherwise. But you also get exposure into alpha versions of games with people who aren't used to seeing alpha states and then overreacting.

Just because most of the systems aren't in the visible part of the game yet doesn't mean they won't ever exist.

We see the homes because they were designed first, and they are a means of driving revenue. We see crafting because it was implemented early. Some of the systems spent more time in the design phase.

Portalarium heavily solicited feedback on systems like combat, death, PvP, etc. before making final design decisions. So they're entering the game later.

The story and exploration aspects of the game have been hidden because the alpha releases are a very small portion of the overall map, most quests aren't in play, and because the story is a secret. And implementing quests in the world is often one of the last things to go into a game.

Do people truly believe that RG's dream project with both himself and Tracy Hickman writing won't have a strong emphasis on story?

 

Thanks for the welcome!

I am excited for this entire project - just mostly feeling gun-shy. I will keep reading you guys' conversations to educate myself on all of the nuances of this project. I'll quickly correct myself or any statements I make as I learn more.

And I am a fan of Tracy Hickman and impressed with his writing of the Dragonlance stuff with Margaret Weis. So I have high hopes. But ..... well I guess I'm just having an Eyor moment and hoping out loud for "the way it used to be."

I understand you are telling me to have faith. As of tonight, I'm just not ready yet to back that up with my wallet. That could change. I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

 

*Pulls out mind control device.* Do it. Back the project. Back it at the LoTM tier.

But anyways, enjoy looking over any of the details, and don't hesitate to ask questions. Some things can be confusing, and lots of things have been said/changed that makes finding it all a little tedious. If needed, back at the lowest tier level that allows you to access the Releases. This will give you a chance to play and see for yourself how the changes occur with each new release. Not saying you should/have too, but I find seeing the progress as it occurs is better than just reading about it (and that is just me, not how everyone feels about it). Hope to see you in game, and have fun in the forums.

 

Nice Sig

 

I've never played Ultima II or III at all.

Ultima I was dated and it wasn't that enjoyable revisiting it many years later. But I'm aware of the plot and details of II and III.

 

The first Ultima that I played was IV around 1986. But I played ultima III and II right after I played IV and eventually I in the late 80s.

U1&2 were already dated back then. After Ultima V came out in 1988, there was no going back.

This was all prior to the gold box, eye of the beholder series and Betrayal at Krondor, Baldurs Gate and all the "new graphics" stuff that was coming out

 

No that is not what many of us are concerned with and you have been told that more then once, and I think no matter how many times we mention that and say the things we worry about there will be people saying that.