Ack, why remove Prosperity tools? (questions)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by bdo7, Oct 18, 2014.

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  1. rune_74

    rune_74 Avatar

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    You don't need these....also the game will be a story based game as well...not just a sandbox you need to progress in.
     
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  2. Nemo Herringwary

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    To be honest, the Dev+ issue, like the ever increasing and overlapping levels of public support and influence, has become far too complex and alienating; if the Dev+ forums were a "sneak peak at thinking" it would be ok, but there really shouldn't be any difference in awareness of, or discussion of finalised public drafts... and the problem with the Tools is people are trying to purchase items in the public store, based upon design documents that are still only in Dev+, not widely explained in public. Likewise I wasn't aware the items included within my own level of Pledge weren't the same as the Prosperity ones... I've not purchased any on the assumption I was getting some free.

    And slightly off topic, I wish the Devs were more open on taking inspiration from outside Dev+ forums; the Hangouts are personal and the conversation two way, yes... and as illustrated by the disaster in submitting fiction which had to be shut down due to personal greed, obviously I'm aware you have to be careful with giving too much credit to even this relatively mature player base; but it does add to a pervading sense of Pay To Influence here sometimes that I've yet to see one thread outside of the Unity Assets forum which says "we took the idea of Poster X and..." Again, the Devs are already going far beyond the industry standard, the problem is that the reality feels so much less inspiring than the aspiration; and the Tools apparently are so much less functional.
     
  3. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

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    Tbh there is little in the Dev+ forums to get overly excited about (ask any Dev+ member), most discussions are in fact taking place in the public forums. In addition if you randomly look to see where Devs are reading and commenting, it is actually the Public forums.

    A good idea is a good idea regardless where it is posted.
     
  4. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    As for the difference in tools between prosperity and artisan (pledge tools), there are several ways to know they are different:

    One is in the name and in-game texture.
    Two, they've made it clear in the past, that things available to pledge backers are unique and different to things that will be available in the item store, and to things that will be available in game.
    Likewise to things available for purchase in the add-on store. They all say, 'similar items will be available in-game,' but not these exact items.

    Therefore, Artisan vs. Prosperity is one of the first examples we get to see of similar but different items available. This 'similar but unique' idea is how it is intended for all items, I think.
    Another example: because lots are both available to backers, and in the add-on store, the add-on store lots are taxed, while the backer lots are tax-free. -always keeping them similar but different, see?

    I'm not sure if this will continue to hold true throughout the game's future.
    It's possible that it isn't, because I can't seem to find any wording stating this at the top of the pledge/store pages anymore.
    But I'm pretty sure it used to be there!
     
  5. Lord Aventine

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    Taking the prosperity tools off the market is a good crowdfunding ploy. After month of figuring I could do it at some point down the road, it finally led me to grab them. I realize I don't absolutely have to have them, but having them is a good thing.
     
  6. smack

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    This is exactly the problem I was referring to. The true value of the starter vs. Prosperity tools was clarified by Starr in the post I linked to. That information is nowhere to be found in the public post, in the FAQ, in the add-on store, etc. That information should not be kept to higher tiers because of the following problems:

    - The starter tools are rewarded at the $90 Royal Artisan level and up, yet this information is kept from them and only given to $450 Developer tiers+
    - The prosperity tools can be purchased by anyone, regardless of level

    So anyone not privy to this information does not know their true value and cannot make informed decisions on pledge upgrades or store purchases. The Dev+ folks do have this information and can take advantage of this monetarily. To draw an analogy to stocks: this would be considered insider information, and we all know how ethical and legal that is.

    If the entire Dev+ feedback thread isn't made public, then at the very least only the the information clarified by the Devs in the feedback thread needs to be made public once the post is also made public. We need to stop this information segregation. Really, this is not like lore or story spilling secrets here. This is pretty basic info everyone should have.
     
  7. Beli

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    I think having both, starter and prosperity tools is good, at least it is for me cause I will be leaving a set in each one of my two homes except for the gathering ones.
     
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  8. Trenyc

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    @Dallas
    @DarkStarr

    Please keep this in mind for future programs. Those Dev+ threads reveal questions and feedback that would be valuable to plenty of people who don't have Dev+ access. It would be great if the people who are reading those threads and reviewing those suggestions could make a list as they go of relevant questions. Those people could then build a sort of FAQ list, and the information from that FAQ list could be included in the program's description from the very beginning.
     
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  9. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    Heartily agree with you Smack. Giving Dev+ access to item information before the public has access to the items is one thing.
    Making the items available for sale by everyone, but only releasing the information regarding them to dev+ is something different entirely.

    I believe this is an honest mistake, that needs to be fixed, and soon.
     
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  10. smack

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    Totally agreed. I did not meant to imply anything other than an oversight and used this example simply to lobby for a different kind of Dev+ forum management. But I do agree that would pertain to certain types of info such as this.
     
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  11. Nemo Herringwary

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    I think it's simply because we're involved so early in the process; ideas change, things don't work, lawyers are kept away from bros, that sort of thing. But you need to dedicate enormous amounts of time to follow all the evolving paths and forum threads to be certain of where anything is at any moment... which is fine for the committed community here, but I really don't think many realise how confusing it all from outside of that perspective.

    I truly think they need to put a halt to the digital swag, which will of course need systems to support them, systems not yet set in stone... and which may not be there when people come in later, and think about more self contained ways to earn funding, like overcharging on Cafepress T Shirts for instance :p Moving to Steam, and allowing 24/7 play will help with that, rotating tools in and out of the Digital Store, when even some of the dedicated aren't quite following what crafting is about yet is not.
     
  12. Dorham Isycle

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    I've been eyeing them since last year Black Friday sale, thought then that I'd wait & get them just before release since i had been spending money on pledge upgrades at the time. Got all 3 packs as well the other day. Good to have, now I'm 1 credit shy of getting a cloak.
     
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  13. Dean478

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    Well that was really tricky! When I saw it on sale I went and checked to make sure I had it and couldn't see listed separately as "got it" and it wasn't showing on the store (as shown here).

    So then I bought it thinking I had missed it.... what a waste.

    This is starting to get so confusing with all these bloody cash shop addons.
     
  14. Dorham Isycle

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    You know you want it
     
  15. Dorham Isycle

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    Once it's not in the store you can sell it for more. Quick buy 1000 now!
     
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  16. Satan Himself

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    True or false:

    Prosperity tools > starter tools
     
  17. Trenyc

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    More than likely true for the short term, false for the long term.
     
  18. rune_74

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    Dev+ forums have basically nothing you don't already see on the normal forums???there are no "better" ideas by dev+ members due to them having access....thankfully no one seems to have the right to change much based on their donation level....
     
  19. Poor game design

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    I think starter tools are the starter tools.

    [​IMG]

    I think the prosperity tools are a grade above "starter tools" because:
    [​IMG]

    I decided to buy all the prosperity items today. It's both a short term and a long term strategy that will provide an advantage (however slight) over those that don't have these items. It's silly to pretend that's not the case (for those of you thinking of replying that's not the case).

    Let's call a spade a spade (or a Pickaxe a Pickaxe) here.
     
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  20. Trenyc

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    It's not about them having power change things. Questions get asked in the course of those preliminary discussions which produce information that could be useful to people who can't access the discussions. That's all. This ain't no witch hunt. :)
     
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