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Aiming system change

Discussion in 'Release 36 Feedback Forum' started by Hornpipe, Nov 19, 2016.

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  1. The Hendoman

    The Hendoman Avatar

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    you're not a mindreader, and i'm not an idiot. no, I didnt mean a brand new player. nor do I think that's an open ender... those are more like 'which religeon is the best' or 'whats better, tank or cloth mage' ... but now i'm just being confrontational by accident, which I didnt want to be with you.

    targeting was born broke for melee too, after a stack, the targeting usually goes away. I think it's random.

    i look like a monkey making sweet love to a football trying to type all these keys in battle. with a joystick, I look like I'm trying to molest cojoined twins.

    THE HENDOMAN
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
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  2. Tracker

    Tracker Avatar

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    The only way I can see making a reticle targeting system work, is to tighten up the field of fire in the cross hairs. This would allow you to target something beyond the closest enemy without jumping targets. I know this was tried early on in the targeting systems infancy, but having a broad field of fire has always caused a problem with hitting random targets.

    Placing your cross hairs on what you want to hit, and maintaining it there for each attack is the only viable way I can see for attacking when you have multiple targets running around you. (And yes, I know doing this would make it feel more like a twitch game....of which I would have a hard time with myself, but it seems like the only logical way to single out a specific target, short of returning to tab targeting altogether.)

    Tracker
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
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  3. Toadster

    Toadster Avatar

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    The biggest issue they have here is trying to appease two different types of play with one targeting system.

    If I am in reticle mode +1 to reticle targeting. Let me heal or attack what is in my reticle first that is where I want to go.

    If I am in cursor mode I am not focused on my reticle so this system needs to have the hard targets based on what is cycled with the G key, nearest first.

    Unfortunately when trying to fix one issue it is hurting the other. depending on what mode you are in a different targeting system should be used to accommodate both sides of this argument.
     
  4. LoneStranger

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    The easiest way to please the most people, IMO, is to have a slider that goes between the way it was in R35 and the way it is now in R36. We can adjust it as necessary so that those who like closest to the ray cast from the pointer can do that, and those who like it closer to their player can use that.
     
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  5. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    I'm an archer, and I can lock my hostile targets easily. My arrows fly where I want them to fly.

    The friendly ones (pets, party members and especially myself!), however...
     
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  6. LoneStranger

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    It's a different style, and if you're fine with locking then that's great. Those of us complaining about the new targeting stuff are doing so because it affects our ability to quickly and accurately switch between multiple targets on the screen without having to hit another button. As described above, sometimes you want to hit two or more targets with things that slow them down so you can focus on one of them before they get to you. It's been great to just move the mouse slightly, let loose an arrow and then continue on.
     
  7. moko

    moko Avatar

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    How are you doing this? I'm playing in free cursor mode and have not managed this so far. Help would be appreciated.
     
  8. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    I just use "lock next target"; default G, but I reconfigured it to F, so it's closer to WASD and with the small stub to recognize it tactily. I also briefly tried to remap the lock-next to the mouse wheel, in case things get hairy and I have to switch targets in a hurry.

    When the target is hard locked with this key, the red reticle outer circle is whole, unbroken. When the target is soft locked (able to move around depending on range/heading), the reticle outer circle is incomplete, split in four arcs.

    I posted already with some pics/examples, here:

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...s/target-red-reticle.67246/page-2#post-686361

    In short, since I don't think archer Crowd Control is worth anything, I opt for pure, unadulterated damage (Aimed and Rapid), and thus I want and need to inflict the most insane damage at a single target in the shortest possible time. Having my target lock jump from foe to foe is absolutely stupid (and deadly), as I end up damaging most mobs at 50% and still keeping them on the field to pummel my poor squishy leather suit.
     
  9. Oyjord Hansen

    Oyjord Hansen Avatar

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    If anything, this thread indicates that the targeting system, one of the most important in any game, is not ready for primetime. I'm a simple tank in free-cursor mode, the easiest of combat configs, and I still struggle from time to time.
     
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  10. moko

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    Hm, I see, thanks, I already have been trying to hard target with G but have not been successful all times - soft targeting kind of gets in my way, I don't quite understand what I'm doing wrong there. I guess I'll have to keep trying to make it work.
     
  11. MrBlight

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    My issue is that i do lock. the problem is it seems to force change my tsrget ignoring what im locked on. Its only BEEN an issue when im chasing pvp players, and when theres 3 dif mobs on me. If im stacking skills itll auto switch before finishing my locked target.
    Ill have to make a video, its prettty annoying.
     
  12. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Isn't there a difference between
    Click
    Shift+Click
    Doubleclick
    when used for targetting?
    Or is that my imagination?

    I tend to Shift+Click when I want to 'stay on target' and doubleclick when I want auto-attack to trigger.
     
  13. Rampage202

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    The biggest issue I see is there being too much assistance from the system. The one thing I don't hear anyone ever complain about is genuinely missing their target and shooting at nothing. The fact that archers using a targeting reticle aren't expected to be accurate enough to aim their own projectiles in a realistic way concerns me, and seems to point to some fundamental problem with how targeting is implemented in general.
     
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  14. LoneStranger

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    People with halberds or swords don't have to aim either. They just click a button and anything within an arc and a certain distance is hit, correct?

    If they were to implement actual aiming for ranged weapons, then they better remove the RNG from the hit/miss calculation.
     
  15. Rampage202

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    I don't think they need to go so far as to disconnect hit from dex calcs, it just seems obvious to me that when using a reticle your accuracy with attacks will only feel comfortable for gamers if there's as close to a 1:1 match between the reticle's aim and the aim of the attack being thrown as possible, or that many basic mechanics operate on an active targeting system basis. In fact the best games in my opinion go all out with camera controls and targeting control. League of legends and most other DOTA clones are what half the audience here strive for I think, while the other half are looking for a control scheme like WoW mixed with the current control methodology.

    People talk about balance and difficulty, "twitch mechanics" and the realities of attempting to do all this stuff in real time, but when it comes to basic control and targeting ease I've had the opinion that it should be as simple and comfortable as possible to make it fun in the first place. I don't mind being locked to only a few camera perspectives, but a bit more control over the camera and some polish on targeting would be greatly a appreciated.
     
  16. WehTeheFf

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    Not entirely sure, but didn't they say that targets "unlock" when they move out of range? Maybe that's the problem? That the other player gets out of range for a moment which makes your target lock drop.
    I play an Archer (most of the time) and use hard lock ('g') all the time. And I have almost no problems at all regarding targetting. But I only do PvE (and always will), so there's no mobs getting out of my range (except when I have to flee and I don't care about my target lock in those situations ^^).
     
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  17. moko

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    That could be my issue with it, too! I try to kite in PVE so I probably get out of range and then my target is no longer set when it's in range again. Thanks for the info!
     
  18. MrBlight

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    yea for pvp it could be lag even. but the pve wolf cycle i described makes no sense lol
     
  19. Kliirkast

    Kliirkast Localization Team

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    Yup, couldn't have said it better.

    It seems that the targeting system, and more extensively the whole combat system, is far from satisfactory for most of the players.
    I must admit I cannot understand why Portalarium keeps trying to invent new ways... "New" is not necessarily "better". In this case I would have preferred something more "standard". It's not because you're using the same way to control your avatar as 200 other games that it means you lack of originality... but maybe you'll win audience because the learning curve will be smoother.

    J from B.
     
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