Already Frustrated w/ CONVO!

But that outcome would be NO different whether you typed it or clicked it.

The only difference would be, you'd have gone to a lot more effort to discover you had no real choice!

 

It's fine if typing is "key" to RGs concept. But why are they constantly billing this as innovation when it's existed since the 1980s?

 

Yeah you have a point. Typing out sentences isn't really any more immersive then clicking on different choices. I mean in the end in both cases the npcs will only respond to a very limited number of things. You can't really have a "real" conversation with one. And with typing I imagine that most people just end up communicating using single key words since typing out full sentences gets old quick and the npc will likely only actually be programmed to respond to maybe one or two words in that entire sentence. So you do just end up standing in front of npcs spouting out different words hoping that they will respond to something.

I think a system of clickable choices would be better then what we have now. I think they would just need to make sure there is plenty of choices. So you don't feel like ok this is the only option I have so you actually have to think ok what should I say? what would the consequences be?

 

That is true, I see nothing innovative about it atm.

Also, I've noticed a bit of a trend not just in this thread, but in many others amongst the forums. When is it going to get to the point when backers stop making allowances (excuses) for the developers? It's not exactly that early in the process anymore, so the whole saying "its still very early" or "this is just an unpolished alpha version" excuse does not hold as much water as it used to. I mean there are a lot of things to be happy about in SotA thus far and they have come a long way! Then again, there is also still a LOT of work to be done. Perhaps its nearing time to stop using the "its only alpha" excuse and start working toward a more realistic and stronger message to the backers and developers as to what needs direct attention.

 

Obviously it was a simple example, it can and should be better in SoTA than that.

But there is a huge difference.

One you feel like you're actually asking questions of someone nd the other you're just clicking

on whatever the game decides for you that you can click on.

And, I'm sorry Caliya, but not wanting to move your hand 6 inches to the left to hit some keys, it's lazy.

It's damned lazy. Especially when you have to have one hand on the keyboard for WASD and one hand on the mouse or trackpad

Just to play anyway !!

 

The software tester in me (I used to be a technical writer) wants to make a macro with 1000 key words, and use that on an NPC to see if it breaks them. Or just what would they answer if I did that? lol

 

Here's the thing about this. Go to any game that has forums, and you will find people complaining about it.

There is a difference between discussing features, informing about problems and just plain destructive whining and moaning.

A bunch of people whining and moaning about everything on forums doesn't help the game improve.

Constructively discussing (arguing ?) about it is at least slightly better than that.

Acutally helping like making assets, music or the people that are making 3rd party communities that's even more helpful.

And the game IS in Alpha. I think it's silly to call it pre-Alpha but that's their choice.

Look at Star Citizen... that game nobody complains about graphics - but you can' t even DO anything... you can't even go into a demo level yet unless you count the secret hangar level and that's just rough as all get out.

 

If they have no plans to listen to player input, you're right.

 

They already are listening to player input, Caliya. It's only been a month ! 4 weeks since R3 !

So far They've improved performance, they added list inventory mode, they added emotes, they allowed us to jump, the allowed us to swim,

they allowed us to test drive the houses and they fixed serious issues like the Founder Knights house, they are obviously listening.

If you think about where we were at R1, 3 months later, it's not too bad. It's not where I'd like it to be, but what other company besides Star Citizen is doing an open development model from kickstarter ?

What about Tides of Numenara the planescape game ? Those people have nothing!

No demo, no story, no pictures, nothing.

 

One of the other things to consider is that Lum (hopefully plus a team of goblins), can review the things we've said to each given NPC. From that he can add in the sort of conversations we are trying to have. Are we all asking the merchants "What do you sell?", then expect that merchants will be taught to respond to the word sell... "I sell all sorts of vegetables and herbs. Would you like to see them?" with "Yes" taking us to a buy/sell screen. "no" (presumably or any other responses) would leave us in the conversation.

They've already said that all NPCs should have at least a short comment on the weather, about the town they are in, etc.

 

He just has to sort through all the:

"My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die."
"Your mother!"
"Whatever dumbass"
"Where my peeps at?"
"No. I am your father"
"Only one girl in all the world with the strength and skill...... etc"

and other assorted silliness and frustrated cussiness.

 

The software developer in me wants to write a unit test to test this exact scenario first

 

OK this will not be a popular post

As stated elsewhere in the thread keyword based answers are nothing but hidden choices combined with a lot of unnecessary frustration and waste of time. For this reason the industry abandoned them until more freeform possibilities become feasible. As mankind is now able to build jeopardy playing computers, it is only a matter of time until a big studio will contract the relevant technology and make it happen cloud based in a game.

There are good reasons to think that pushing the boundaries on free-form conversation in a game will lead to better, more immersive games, but what Lord British has chosen to do here is to revert back to the outdated, non-immersive 80s system, without any innovation at all.
In fact I would argue that the same is happening with many other aspects of the game, which leads me to believe that he is still stuck in the 80s. When I pledged I had hoped to get innovation like back with his old games, but I since realized that pretty much all I think is a grave mistake with regard to the game design goes back directly to something Lord British feels strong about.

 

I agree with you Tarsillion, in that what we've been shown is far short of what it needs to be.

But I don't agree that the "Industry" has decided to abandon it because it's not good.

It's abandoned because most companies are too lazy to do it right, they just throw up A, B or C answers and it's even more
limiting, frustating and anti-character devleopment to me than typing words in is. I guess if your plan is to speed-run the game and beat it in 20 hours it's better,
but it's not better if you want to roleplay and enjoy the game time.

Having said that, I don't think what we have is good enough. not even close.

 

What you call lazy, I call a waste of time.

What you call lazy, I call laziness on the developer's part.

What you call lazy, I call outdated and shows development goals decided by a bunch of old people who have lost touch with today's gaming world.

What you call lazy, I call millions of gamers everywhere in the world who prefer clickable conversations, as a common courtesy of that person's time.

 

If I have a child's sand shovel, or a caterpillar (power equipment) for moving earth, which do you think I'd chose to dig the foundation of a house?

I know, I'm lazy for wanting to use a caterpillar. lol

But just think how much longer I'd play a game take to dig that foundation!

 

I'm not even that married to type and response. I just want a convo system that works.... I think we can both agree on that

 

You obviously missed my point. How are they supposed to get player input if we can't tell them what we dislike? If people only tell them what they like, how will that ever change what people don't like?

It's essential that people complain. I did not invest in backing the game for the purpose of complaining! I was excited and wanted to see a good game develop. But when I see it isn't happening, of course I'm going to let them know what I don't like. So is everyone else.

To complain about complainers isn't really productive.

 

I was a big supporter of the text conversation system, and I still hope it will add to the immersion of the game. However, in the releases I am finding myself just going to key words after awhile, which tells me it's not engaging me like I thought it would.

 

Um, theres a difference between telling people what you like and dislike and just being a negative person on the forums tho.

I'm not pointing fingers but you know the type. The world is falling because I didn't like something in R4. I'm on the verge of quitting the game and I'm going to bellyache about it.

You know.