Am I the only one who doesn't want to play card game combat??

Yeah except that is my main gripe about the deck system right there. Not being able to cast a heal spell when I want to. This is not acceptable to me. They will have to prove to me that there is a reason to not be able to cast a heal spell when I know a friend or myself needs healing, but my spell isn't there.

To have some variables is one thing, but to lose because the system got in the way is another thing. It is possible that you make the perfect deck and you're heal spells still don't come up. That doesn't make sense, and that is why we have this thread.

 

You have a valid gripe if you are focused more on healing and don't have a heal (which if you are just talking a stock heal lock it to one of your 4). But if you are focused on damage, then you should explain to me why you shouldn't have to swap something (ie: Your deck) to do a heal you haven't prepped for any more than an Archer shouldn't have to swap to do a shield bash. Why should everyone have access to every spell in the game on demand but not have access to every skill attached to every weapon or armor on demand? We all accept the latter limitations but I keep hearing gripes about the former... I say make them all even, and if you plan poorly you (and your buddy) may pay the consequences.

Side note: Despite the fact that I play a healer in most every MMORPG I have played, I don't agree with combat heals and I hate combat use of potions... To me this is immersion breaking, but I ignore it because no company seems willing to go against the grain on that one.

 

I don't see it that way. Casting spells is casting spells. A person could have healing spells, and combat specific spells. Just because he has combat spells, and healing spells doesn't mean he has to "re-equip" or switch modes. Spells are spells. You know them or you don't know them.

Seems to me that as far as combat goes there might be some variability in what might be effective at what times. You might not be able to use that thrust move or whatever. However spells seem a bit different. While swaping from your bow to your sheild there is a physical componant to that and a different stance etc. Switching from being combat minded, to restoration spells doesn't require you to switch stances or equipment. You just cast a heal spell instead of your combat spells.

I'm not sold on the whole idea that spells should be random at all.

 

Combat bar is totally unnecessary if you can put your skills at desired button on your keyboard.

And all skills useable all the time. It dont break immersion and it wont remove my focus from the battle going on.

How a combat bar can be desired and just to add to the crazyness it will also be a combat bar that choose skills/spells for me.

How on earth can that be a better option then a clean screen and all skills on your keyboard available at your will?

 

This is a mentality I've battled with for years. This makes a meleer way less effective than a mage purely because of versatility. A melee can do damage, absorb damage, and do minor crowd control. A mage can do all that, do mobile area effect, ranged crowd control, drains, heals, and they have access to various "tool belt" spells (teleport, enchant, etc) . Unless they get really creative with the skills for melee and allow them to swap between different kinds of weapons/armor on the fly... Or just seriously overpower melee.. The concept of a pure melee is out.
And someone who takes the time to master every spell group (currently no skill caps) has no weakness to be overcome with player skill unless it is forced upon them.

So I'll agree with your idea that spells shouldn't have such limitations, as long as a pure mage is just restricted as a pure melee.

 

Different skill sets, easy remapping, attractive, desirable, comfortable, user friendly.... All sorts of reasons. Your way may work for you and I'm certain that there will be some sort of user key mapping ability, but I bet a lot of folks don't want it. Visual cues are much more user friendly than memorizing a bunch of key strokes for most. It's the way our bodies are wired. Visual creatures are we!


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Really? Why? Look at real combat for a min, you would have a syringe of atropine handy in case your exposed to nerve gas, possibly syringes of morphine in case your injured, the uniforms are being designed with built in bandages now, not to mention water bottles. So why would you think it is unrealistic that you would have potions on your belt where you could grab them at a seconds notice, flip the lid and take a swing. Even more so if your talking about mages using mana potions. Hell potions make far more sense than reagents in the heat of battle and they are pushing ahead with them (though I am still hopeful they will be used to empower spells so that mages aren't left completely disadvantaged compared to fighters)

 

There currently are plans for skill caps.

 

As a Marine I know exactly what you are talking about, but I will inform you, many of those things are not for you to use on yourself ("for buddy use only" is labeled on some). Someone has to stop doing what they are doing to use them on you. And they aren't packed where they are so easily accessible (unlike ammo). Also, in combat you aren't undoing your canteen, taking a drink, and putting it back.... You do that during lulls in combat. Not in the middle of a single fight.

So, no, I stand by my opinion.

 

I can't dispute this, I work too much it's easy for me to miss something, but I do remember a dev specifically saying there wasn't currently plans for skill caps.. But that was months ago.

 

Fair enough but still it wouldn't be that hard to make a small potion bottle readily accessible so it only takes a moment to access and drink and most games drinking a potion leaves you open to an attack of opportunity or it takes "a turn" so I don't see it as a huge issue. Still think reagent prep is a bigger issue, if I had to get 5 reagents out of 5 different bags (or worse find them out of the same bag) in order to cast a spell that's going to take FAR more time than flipping a lid and taking a swig

 

I also agree about the reagents, but magic has become more than just the occasional "game changer" that used correctly could swing things your way to becoming the "jack of all trades, master of all trades" way of playing. That is why you don't have to do a whole ceremony to cast a spell and the reagents just have to be present and are automatically consumed.

I also wouldn't complain with a couple potions readily available, but I hate the idea of "who has the most potions lives longest".

 

I will have a RP healer character, I'm working out the back story to him now He will be a druid.

 

maybe diminishing returns could be an option?

 

Asheron's Call originally had a feature I thought was great but they abandoned it because people complained instead of doing what was intended, they should have adapted. When the game was released the "world" had a mana pool, the more magic was used the weaker it got and it recovered slowly over time. Meaning all the people out there running casting macros 24/7 were making every mage weaker. I think it should have been per spell instead of magic as a whole, but I thought it connected magic to the world more.

 

Hrm, that is very interesting, I never did play that game.

 

You can still get a handful of slugs with no useful cards. You will have to deal with reagents instead of cards for spells as well as mana management. We're trying to get away from builds and be classless. Not have classes that you have to follow a strict build to be a successful player. Doing a healing build deck ruins their concept of playing wide by forcing you to deliberately use only a subset of your skills. Who are you to tell me what my character is? Maybe I'm a paladin not a full on healer. If we have to follow builds to succeed make classes. It violates the interactive vibe.

So yeah. You are going to just keep blaming everyone who doesn't play like you as doing it wrong. I'm willing to bet that's the opposite of their plans. So keep it up... You're proving my point.

 

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just taking what they have said and put it with my way of looking at it. And classless doesn't mean do whatever you want whenever you want. Classless can easily mean you can do whatever combination of skills you want, but not all at once. That is how I see it... You decide which skills you want to use, to use something else you either have to remove something from ready access or diminish access to all your chosen skills (swap out "cards" in you "deck" or add more making it less likely you will have it when you want it.).

 

And why is it everyone thinks it's OK for a pure melee arms master to be restricted but a pure mage arch mage should have ready access to every spell at all times? I suggest different foci for each spell school... Maybe even 2 school foci.

 

We both are.

The difference is, I want a way that we're both rewarded, you keep saying "I'm doing it wrong." In terms of game design, the more inclusive version should be the goal. You can't please everyone, but I"m betting you can please a lot more than they are with this system.

That's another thing I forgot to mention, if you swap decks, they've said they're going to punish you for doing it on the fly. There will be wall after wall keeping you from skills you earned. That's a gimick that works for a short time as a novel change to RPG combat, but ultimately is annoying, and long term will have people asking "Why is it again I can't just use the heal spell I put a ton into?"

But anyway, yes... classless means just that. I can build lots of different skills and cobble them together into something useful because I can hit with a wide range of tactics, vs specializing and being super good in one thing. Bredth vs Depth. Classless is a style of game that promises to reward the wide ranging player at least as much as the one who focuses on one subset of the skills. If it doesn't, then you just have a class based game hiding behind a classless system.

As for something being available less often when I need it: 1) as said above, I'm already penalized for it not working as well since I also put those points in other skills. 2) Give me one good ingame reason I couldn't use something when I want it that can only be demonstrated through deck use.

Expanding on 2).... if it's situational limit, build the situation in. That's far more interesting. Range, terrain, line of sight, components, pre-requisite techniques for lead in, the ability to hit, etc. They let me know what the limits are and try to overcome them. This is just... random. I can stack the deck, but I can't work the limits. I can't improve my odds of getting a critical hit in by starting with a stunning blow. That's totally out of my control. Maybe I'll get lucky and can try that. Maybe not. As someone who teaches self defense, that makes no sense. They talk about not being able to do anything you want in a real fight, but the truth is... you can. There are just times it's stupid to do so... but if it's your only trick, give it a shot. Do you see the difference at all?

EDIT:

Site someone saying that? As far as I'm concerned it makes even less sense. It's why one of my points is, I"m a healer, and I switch to my shield, why am I getting penalized for using skills I purchased elsewhere to respond to the battle? I either know how to block, or don't. The end.

But if I have to take a stab in the dark it's because there is no 'sword resist' skill. It's because a sword doesn't consume components at a rate equal to reagents. It's because MP's drain with each spell, but a sword fighter just goes on and on and on, it's because, on the whole, spell casting is far more expensive both in terms of gold and xp in any system. It's because a spell has a casting time that causes you to have to wait while the opponent closes or attacks.