An incentive to attract new players.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Winterweaver, May 29, 2020.

  1. Winterweaver

    Winterweaver Avatar

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    I wonder why players use others thread to post grievances about the past, treatment or what they personally have experienced throughout the years.
    The idea behind this thread was hopefully to read about inputs that could lead to implementations that mattered for most players - not only newcomers - but also for existing ones.

    I am a person that doesn't dwell in past history or grievances, but instead I move on. If I decide not to move my corpse, then I try to accept my own decision and get the best out of what I have decided - I don't complain about it to other players.

    The past is irrelevant in this thread. But the future and future options are what I hoped to read about or to inspire people.

    I have had similar experiences as many of you in another game, but it doesn't help to complain without also coming up with alternatives ... or moving forward.

    The thread has slowly moved from a suggestion of one example that could better the life for players to an off topic status that doesn't help any of us or kick the game in a direction that might help us all.

    The game is good as it is, in my perspective, I just suggested an idea that might attract more players. IF it (though I have opposite experience) doesn't attract more players or better life for existing ones > what does?

    I ask again: What could attract new players?

    (Deliberately turning the thread towards reasonable suggestions or ideas).

    Let's move forward and give the game a chance.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
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  2. Winterweaver

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    Bingo
     
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  3. Winterweaver

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    In retrospect; only two backed the idea up about having cheaper wares. No other player seems to want cheaper stuff ... isn't that strange?!
     
  4. Superbitsandbob

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    SoTA is a game that caters to a minority of players who like to decorate towns and craft items. That is why no new players are coming in. People who like those mechanics often don't like fantasy settings, especially not a game where you either need deep pockets or need to grind away in an unwieldy UI until you want to stick forks in your legs. Those people will mostly play The Sims type games.

    In many ways SoTA is the reverse of more populace MMO's. Many use crafting and housing as a way to supplement a robust, deep and interesting combat and PvE game. The PvE and combat in SoTA feels like what it is, an afterthought that is constantly reduced to a line or two in updates full of housing and crafting changes, additions or fixes.

    What could attract new players?

    Set aside any crafting, housing, sim life and store updates for a period across a number of releases.

    Use those releases to refresh the combat skills trees to make them more interesting.
    Bug fix.
    Refresh scenes to give them a story and a reason to visit.
    Bug Fix.
    Refresh scenes so they are not just map A full of animals and map B full of whatever.
    Bug Fix.
    Polish dungeons and if possible create something new.
    Make loot better so people feel they are getting value for their time irrespective of what was promised to players years ago (by loot I don't mean crafting drops).
    When we've cracked this have some streams or videos advertising some good PvE encounters with exciting loot drops.

    The scaling scenes mechanic, which we've been asking for for years, is a step in the right direction assuming it is not riddled with bugs . Players still need a reason to visit those scenes though for story, fun and loot.
     
  5. Winterweaver

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    My respect. You are one step ahead of I and previous posters.

    And I recognize your approach to suggest.

    As for bug fixes. True. Though I haven't experienced many devs or companies that were more serious about fixing bugs - than their focus on new content.

    Our devs are not better than other devs in that perspective (or worse) - but your post is so crystal clear that it might lead in the right direction. Thank you to you also for a great and relevant post.
     
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  6. Adam Crow

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    I think the reason why you aren't getting much of a response here is because the ideas in this OP have been suggested countless times. Ive gotten sick of writing the same thing over and over again, but here I go... :D

    I agree the prices of many items in the crown store need to be looked at and lowered. But more importantly all the different bundles need to be separated. There should be options to purchase every single item by itself, but the crown store bundles many of the deco items (like furniture sets for example), which is causing the loss of many sales. If I just want one chair, I'm not going to buy a full set of furniture to get it. We already have the tech for this, there use to be crown vendors in game that sold every item individually - they need to be brought back or integrated into the current store - and they should be introduced to players at some point when they start using housing. Microtransactions are a great way to earn additional revenue and the delivery of crown store items needs to be adjusted to encourage that.

    As for advertising, first the many problems hurting player retention should be addressed before any large amounts of money are spent on ads. Factions or meaningful pvp, crafting, vendors, quest system, dungeons, expanded combat skills added and balanced, etc... I hated the heritage idea, so I was very happy they backtracked on that one and added the ability to package. Things seem to be moving in the right direction, but I personally wouldn't recommend a big marketing push right now until the systems we currently have are polished up quite a bit.

    And like mentioned above, the difficulty scaling is a nice addition that many have wanted for years. That should really help open up scenes to a greater number of players that lots of work was spent on in the past.

    I personally don't like the idea of prices lowering in the store over time like you mentioned. If players know that items will be lower in the future they are less likely to buy now. However if the team sees that a particular item just isn't selling anyways, then yes, it should be lowered. But I don't like the idea of everything being lowered in stages.

    Oh thanks so much for your generosity lol ;)
     
  7. Lars vonDrachental

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    Well I think the item numbers you can place on lots are already quite outstanding...700+ items for your row lot (and additional 2000+ items for basement) up to 6000+ items for your castle lot (and additional 17000+ items for basement). We also have quite alot items to place but we are missing reasons why a random avatar should start doing it. As already mentioned in SotA trading or entertaining are basically the reasons why you maintain a lot but as you might know trading is not that easy in SotA if you are not on a prime spot.
    A often suggested resting idea might add more value to a house if you are getting a "sleeping in your own bed"-buff...especially if e.g. the quality and blend of decoration would change the buff you can get.
    Or if the number of NPCs wouldn't be defined by simple numbers and instead each NPC would need an own room (renting) with fitting decorated to their (personal) needs and the more rooms you are offering the more NPC you can have on the lot.
    But I guess there are many more idea that could make housing and the game itself more interesting and simultaneously adding a reason to use the shop to a larger number of avatars.
    And about the vehicles...well...I think they still have the plan to implement them but I honestly do not know for what they should be good. I mean as far as I know most avatars are just teleporting between scenes and this way a possibility for faster traveling with noone traveling anymore sounds quite senseless. ;)
    But if they implement it I really hope they are not repeating and make them from the start "mortal". You might still just get the best horse or ship in the shop but if you don't take care of it you might have to buy it a second or third time until you learn it and if they are not eternal they could be even quite cheap compare to the never vanishing items we currently have.
     
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  8. Greyfox

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    How much lower can you get than free? You can get deeds free already.
     
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  9. Greyfox

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    The problem with lowering prices is the race to the bottom. SOTA Developers lacked and continue to lack the ability to understand market conditions.

    Virtual goods are limitless by definition, they have no intrinsic value. The value of a virtual good is only present if they are perceived to be limited. A virtual good can be limited with either a high price or by making it difficult and/or time consuming to obtain.

    If prices are lowered and the population doesn't increase the game can't survive on pennies. Lowering the prices of goods won't automatically increase the player base. In fact the opposite will occur since nothing will have value there is little desire to play without reward.

    SOTA Developers could have turned this project around by making property actually WORTH OWNING. Think Second Life or Entropia Universe as examples. Creating a system where NPCs can farm your land or you gain some reward for larger property pieces and attractive locations by allowing people to pay per visit. Create a hot virtual night club but visitors have to pay an admission. Create an exciting and rewarding dungeon and people have to pay a fee to enter. Club Neverdie in Entropia Universe sold for $635000 USD! I'm sure that is more than SOTA currently makes in an entire year. This system requires a healthy population as well but MAYBE it would be turned around, frankly probably too late.

    What absolutely WON'T WORK is what the OP is proposing. This project already has an extremely limited budget. Lower the prices even more and electricity costs to run the server might not get paid.
     
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  10. Winterweaver

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    And you do what hits the human memory most: You repeat! You continue to anchor. So it is not wasted.

    *

    What I suggested has and is already happening. Discount cycles / lowered prices. For now ... every two hours. So it is not far from Catnip minds to sell cheaper.

    *

    And that is not what I expected, but it could happen. You and other posters in this thread state a lot of facts on other peoples behalf.

    I don't claim anything this way. How can I know how other players think? So those statements are mostly not valid - unless speaking for one self.

    Your claim that people won't buy if they know prices are lowered later. Again not valid unless you write on your own behalf.

    My pattern is: I buy when I need, crave, wish or just feel like it. Partly and mostly because I have waited in previous 24 hours cycles. "Well no discount on the stuff I want today. I'll wait another day." Just to find out in many situations that the particular item was sold with a discount after I lost patience waiting - so instead of being frustrated because I didn't wait one more day ... I adapted my pattern: Buy when needed - and end of grief.

    I have been lucky a few times with the new cycle, but not so much it matters.

    Since they fast cycle discounts now as they do, I thought, why not lower it all in one pool?

    I don't claim we will have new players - I don't know that.

    I don't claim anything, because I am not other players. But what I do, is; I speak from my 30 years of marketing experience. Here I can speak a little on other buyers behalf. Maybe not in general when it comes to virtual wares, but I do know something about customers buy patterns.

    But again I suggest, and if we are met - great. If not, up to Catnip how they continue and hopefully they can deal with the present player pool?

    Who knows - I am not them and can't claim anything about knowing their policies.

    So ... I suggested. I was told it won't happen, I was told no good idea because it will kill the game. I don't know that.
    But at least three posts had some constructive ideas. Bit by bit we might get improvements?

    Facts you know, or assumptions on your part?

    Nothing more from me unless I find it constructive to respond. Safe travels out there :)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  11. Greyfox

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    @Winterweaver Maybe you are new but the SOTA team has been following your path of discounting goods in a race to the bottom. It isn't working. Time to try something different. Everything I post is an educated guess. What I know for a fact is this game failed to live up to it's potential. I still have a glimmer of hope, but it's passing.
     
  12. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    One Ultima Dragon is here, me. Been here since the kickstarter and beyond. We do have a few Ultima 7 things in game already.

    One thing I hate from Ultima 7 that is implemented is the vendors going to sleep. AARRUUGGHHH!
     
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  13. Tazar

    Tazar Bug Hunter

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    +1 More Ultima Dragon here. Bug Fixes and smoother publishes balanced with new content is needed.
     
  14. Winterweaver

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    I have listened, and despite a halfway newcomer status I sense what has happened throughout the existence of SotA. I have experienced exact similar circumstances - but in another game called ArcheAge.

    It was doomed and three players filed a class act lawsuit against Trion, with the result that the game company had to sell it all to Gamigo, and since obviously signed up for all responsibilities - it ended with a settlement.

    I don't see it coming our way, but still. I do notice what people write about, despite most is off topic.

    Thank you for your respectful response.

    I take your words about the economy for granted, and seen in that light > I move on to the second intentions of my OP ... hopes of inspirations.
     
  15. Bedawyn

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    My point wasn't to post grievances, but to explain why I thought your OP would not help new player retention. (I agree that it would help entice existing players to spend more, but that wasn't the stated topic of the OP either.) But brevity isn't my strong point and I tend to go into too much detail about why I think what I do. That's what I want to hear from other people -- not just what they think, everyone has opinions, but WHY they think what they do, how they reached that conclusion. Alas, other people don't share my curiousity, and I tend to forget that.

    I really, seriously believe that this is the wrong question. I believe it's both unethical and doomed-to-failure to try to sell a broken product, and that SotA is currently a broken product. I don't believe we should be trying to attract new players at this stage, because most of them who come will go away with a bad impression of the game, take that bad impression back to their friends and other games, and the attempt to attract them will therefore result in more bad PR for us that we'll have to overcome in the long run.

    Asking, as you originally did, how do we retain new players is a different question and one worth asking. And my answer is: fix all those problems I mentioned in my previous post. Because SotA already has a ton of good things about it, but those problems are standing in the way of people appreciating the good things.

    Wanting cheaper stuff is not the same as believing cheaper stuff will solve the problems.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
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  16. Vladamir Begemot

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    Cheaper stuff has already been tried at the request of some players, the result was a lot of big spenders closing their wallets, Portalarim going out of business and the entire game being sold off to one person.

    It was a failure that drastically lowered the value of everyones property, and thus the value of the entire world/game company.

    New players are coming in, so the question should be how to keep them, not how much they'll pay. If they love the game they stay. If they don't, they don't, it has very little to do with the cash shop, particularly since everything can be bought from other players if time and effort is spent aquiring in game gold.

    I would suggest (for the 100th time) that the devs polled new players that didn't return and separately polled those of us who have stopped playing. You need both, new players that stay, and then they need to stay to become long time veterans.

    You can lower the prices to zero and it won't help if the problems that are causing people to quit still exist. You might buy 3 more plants, but that is not going to change anything in the big picture.
     
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  17. Saevio Vehemens

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    Fix the performance issues and they will stay.
     
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  18. Chemeck

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    Exactly. Every other aspect of this game, even if confusing or not being exactly what player expect, can be handled/overlooked, since the game has to offer a lot and other features can make up for the ones you dont like. Like me being not into PVP how it is right now, but I dont mind, since i have lots of other stuff to do. If the game doesnt work tho, or works not good enough, people will just switch to something else. And that is what happening. Like memory leaks, it just shouldn't be a thing, and i see players got used to it already, resetting the game every now and then so they can enjoy the game without issues.
     
  19. Barugon

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    I've been playing a lot of ESO lately because they have an insane amount of story. Where ESO falls down, IMO, is that there are dozens of other players doing exacly what I'm doing, which really spoils it for me. SotA is much better in this regard as you can do all questing solo and even play the game offline. If SotA had more story (i.e. longer, more involved quests), I think that would attract and hold more players. SotA needs quartery infusions of story.
     
  20. Vladamir Begemot

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    And an attractive delivery. The delivery method as it is is its own major blocker that most people just won't bother overcoming.