Analysis Paralysis.

Discussion in 'Crafting & Gathering' started by Astirian, Oct 17, 2019.

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  1. Astirian

    Astirian Avatar

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    Ok, so I'm thinking about advanced crafting but them mats sure is precious.

    I made a few exceptional pieces with 1 MC and 1 enchant and tried to sell them to gauge the market. They didn't sell. So, it either looks like going forward I'm selling at a loss until I get MC and Ench up to a reasonable degree and use advanced mats. I guess that's how the 20k weapons are a thing?

    I also have 0 idea what makes a decent weapon. Or how to cost it based on stats. Looks to me like no one will buy a maple crossbow sold at cost. You can absolutely forget about selling it with low level MCs and enchants if you factor in the gold and silver cost.

    So... Do I just scrap everything till I got a ton of advanced mats and 120 MC or something? And be poor for 3 years? It just feels to me like you either sell basic for pennies, or you're in the big time with the middle section completely missing. Is it a population thing?

    Might have to stick to my furniture shop! Don't want to be wasting any nickel!

    P.S: Where's a good spot for nickel?

    Edit: Formatting because my phone is wild apparently.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  2. Spoon

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    Correct, the middle is missing.
    Yes that is also due to pop. However, it is also an affect of over saturation of sellers vs buyers. Plus also an affect of currency accumulation, where before a threshold you can only afford basics, but once over the threshold why not save up to buy the best thing for your build, where there isn't much of a middle tier market since you can’t trade in your mid tier item when moving up.
     
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  3. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    @Astirian
    Sadly even at the high end, crafting gear is still inferior to just selling the materials. There isn't enough demand, and too much waste goes into the production - putting something on a vendor and expecting it to move, even if its high end, doesn't really happen unless you do the marketing network thing, put vendors in all the major towns, advertise, and get repeat buyers. Even then, you'd probably have made more money faster just selling the materials. Even with lvl 140 skills. That's if money's your goal, anyway. I'm a crafter but I'm not in it for profit - there isn't any - but I have a long list of people that I regularly outfit and who toss me tips, "treats", and such in exchange for my skill - their mats. It keeps me pretty busy. If I want money, I go farm resources and sell them. =/
     
  4. Aldo

    Aldo Avatar

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    I have 300 artifacts in one chest, on the way to 300 more in another. What does that have to do with the OP, you say? Pretty much all the common artifacts have a similar rate of drop. I need a brutal butcher belt. Have been waiting for one to drop for over a year. Yes, the odds of dropping that particular artifact are reasonable, but as the number of artifacts is pretty high, the odds of me getting the drop I need are pretty low. Same goes for crafting items. Even when you have great skill, the number of tries to get just what you want is unbelievable. This results in (my case) thousands of mid level failed expensive items stored all over my basement. It is the main reason there is no market for these at all. The supply is through the roof. I refuse to scrap the items, especially the special mat items because of the unfinished and completely unreasonable salvage mechanic. I mean if I salvage a meteoric chain chest piece, the resulting 29 metal scrap just doesn't cut it. I would rather store the stuff than stoop to the insulting process of salvage in its current state. Selling to an NPC is almost as insulting. Until there is some fix that recognizes the time, effort and cost represented in all those failures, I guess our crafting system is going to tread water as a profession.
     
  5. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    Also there is no armor progression since everyone can wear anything right off. We said we don't want a game with a grind for armor scenario like wow right? But what we got instead is a marketplace that can't always sell it's goods of various qualities.

    One reason is players don't always know what is where or just shop close to home.

    Another is affordability. Players purchase what they can afford or make their own.

    We don't have enough player-base to control this well anyway imo. Location and advertising are at this time important but yet we don't have a static trade advertising system yet. Our trade advertisements are not viewable unless we spam them so each new person logging in will see them.

    Also my always pet peeve is that we can't create sets of items in little bags to sell as we did in UO. We don't have enough creative tools to sell our goods in ways that make them more appealing. Selleable bags of goods would take us a long way to being more fun and interesting and competitive.

    And also with markable runes (if I heard right) we could advertise many things and give teleports right to our shops and or vendors.

    I also don't agree with the way this game handles salvaging of our armors etc. To get 29 scaps for a crafted armor is ridiculous. All the time and money to get resources to make items are invalidated. That needs to change immediately.

    Hopefully I didn't go off topic too far but that is my 2 cents.
     
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  6. Astirian

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    Oh yes indeed! My routine for the past year and half (although I have been distracted of late) was to create little "Astirian Bundles" on the 3 main PVs, Ardoris, Resolute and Aerie/Owl's Head. It's a book, a full set of epic cloth and rugs to round it out. It was fun for ages but it started getting a bit repetitive, that's why I decided to look into more advanced crafting and um... Yeah...

    It's probably a side effect of the (frankly valiant) effort of doing a single-player and multi-player game in one. In single-player you'd figure out as you went what gear you wanted for yourself and you'd discover more exotic mats as you progressed (which I guess is the same in MP although its carrying the burden of player economy) but also I'd hope that the crafting grind numbers were tweaked in SP to the tune of maybe as much as 50% less.

    Anyway I digress, I'll just treat it like my other shops. They rarely sell stuff (when they do it's glorious) but to me at this stage I think I'll treat it almost as a deco thing. The satisfaction will be in achieving Grandmastery and having a well thought out vendor inventory and so on. Something like Tim the Tailor from UO.
     
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  7. majoria70

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    It would be fun to create and more fun to shop for interesting bags of goods in my strong opinion if we could place and sell them on our vendors.

    Things like a collection of sheet music of Queens songs, an all blue dress, shoes, hat, gloves set, or full set of meteoric armor to name a few ideas. Having the ability to place them into bags on our vendors is a huge convenience factor. The reason we were given for this feature not getting implemented was the possibility of getting scammed. Well let us see what's in the bag then right? Not a good enough reason imo.
     
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  8. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    For a healthy economy, we need turnover. Currently, durability is too easy to maintain, and Crown repair makes actual destruction and replacement rare.

    Until there is a reason for people to buy new instead of repair, that "middle" of crafting won't exist. There simply are not enough new players to sustain crafting.
     
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  9. majoria70

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    I am not sure this is the answer. Players can craft their own things. Durability issues are already expensive needing cotos to maintain. The time consuming part to gather gold or resources is what makes buying a way to go sometimes for me. If my stuff that I spent a ton of money on is just going to easily break. I most likely won't buy it. Well just another thought.
     
  10. kaeshiva

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    Right, but until you can reliably replace stuff instead of relying on hail mary miracle rolls to get the gear you want, upping gear durabiltiy loss rate is going to cause rage.
    When they first announced crafting specialization would remove RNG completely, I assumed that this is what they had in mind - reduce junk created, but in turn crank up durability loss to create a market. It doesn't matter if your amazing chestpiece wears out in a week of hard play if you can go order a new one. Instead we got some rerolls, but then they put rare effects in, so we're in the exact same position we were before, worse even, if you follow the price of resources.

    Without removing the obsession that seems to exist with wasting players time with random number generators though, that simply can't work. We'll continue to glut the economy with unwanted failgear while wasting thousands of materials trying to make something someone actually wants. Its a bit baffling, to be honest. NPC vendoring and salvage are both non-options for consumption of unwantables. Something has to give, somewhere.
     
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  11. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Oh, I agree that crafting by randomness is horrible, just noting that there is no market for middle of the road pieces because gear doesn't turn over enough to warrant buying pieces as you level, or replace "perfect" pieces until you can get something just as good.

    We were not supposed to be this gear dependant. It's going to take a lot of work to fix.
     
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  12. Floors

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    There's hardly anyone playing, except die hards. Let's not be advocating for things that make the game worse. Not everyone is a crafter, and we don't want to constantly be spending money which I've given untold millions of IGGs to crafters in just a year to get gear that works......I don't want to be constantly having to do that and deal with durability because the crafters want to be able to make money.

    I already see that top crafters in the game are rich enough to have gigantic galleon ships in their market towns, so let's favor average adventurers for a change.

    NO to durability changes.
     
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  13. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    The changes can't be made in a vacuum. If crafting was simpler, and players could make items more consistently, prices would drop dramatically. Increasing durability loss so you needed to replace them more often goes hand in hand with that.
     
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