Armor versus Dodginess

So...a bit of an age old question the dodgy fast guy versus the armored heavy guy. I direct you to the Bronn vs Ser Vardis Egan scene in GoT.

With the card/skill versus gear discussion happening now I just wonder how valid will this kind of match-up be? Do you believe the proposed system will make being a dodgy guy more or less of a valid play style option?
The continued talk about gear not being the end all of determiners gives me hope.

 

It's certainly doable. Just make a light/no armor skill tree that increases your chance of dodging, while the heavy armor tree reduces chance of dodging for greater damage reduction.

 

They should both be valid, and even heavy armored tanks will likely need some ability to dodge, rather than merely absorb everything.

 

As someone who roles medium armor - I hope it is a viable and featured

 

That too. The reduced dodginess should be a result of the heavy armor, not the skill tree. There might even be paths along the heavy armor tree to reduce the dodge penalty of the heavy armor.

 

Heavys' Block and Deflect

Mediums' Block, Parry, Dodge and Deflect

 

I would not like "reduction" of said skills / penalties .. that's the point - if you role heavy you should not be able to do certain things (as well as others / or not at all)

This is more important to me than skill cap

 

Huh. I see reduction of armor penalties as a natural extension of skill with the armor. You shouldn't be able to negate them, that's too powerful and gives you little reason to choose any other path, but someone who is well trained in armor should be better at overcoming it's restrictions in my mind.

Of course game balance trumps simulation here, so whatever the devs decide is good for me as long as every choice is equally valid (in its own way).

 

@docdoom77

agree - to an extent;

Someone with heavy armor - (if this game is remotely "realistic" with "elements of magic") - "Weight" and "Armor Construct" is what impedes movement not "skill"

So I'll believe that one with heavy armor can parry a little faster / deflect at an increased rate but dodging not so much

 

The problem I see with that model (and this is PURE conjecture) is that as far as function goes, parrying and dodging will probably feed into the same thing. If they are even separate ideas in-game, they'll mostly likely feed one stat which governs hit/miss rate and therefore be (as far as game statistics go) the same thing.

If that's the case and heavy armor increases parry/deflect, it would be the same as increasing dodge rate.

I'm not really sure how the game could separate the two ideas (I'd be glad to hear your thoughts on that!).

I think that armor as damage reduction is a high probability given the history of the Ultima franchise.

 

I'm still hoping there's a dodge ability and this is better with less armor. This is more or less the standard.

 

As statistics go - you're right

But the big difference between a dodge and deflect is partial damage ... one is a complete miss while deflection may involve a "blunt - push back type of effect" that could be registered in game through a minor hit to "focus" or an outright small HP hit

But if the game does not differentiate between the the two then I would be a little disappointed

 

We got swimming can we get an active dodge?

 

I think the difference is that when you deflect your armor or your weapon absorbs damage... but not your body.

 

Nice .. I like that

 

I would trade swimming and jumping easily for active dodge.
I noticed ESO has active dodge, block, and cc/interrupt. This is what I would prefer. And to have a base version and a card/skill version. So, properly talented, someone's dodge might be a blink or a vanish or the like.

Obviously better or worse depends on many things, like what the incoming attack looks like. But generally if I'm in a narrow passageway, I want heavy armor for passive mitigation + avoidance with block/parry. If I'm in a very open field, I'm probably better off with less armor and an active dodge. But again, this could change. Fighting multiple opponents is again likely better off with heavier armor because I simply cannot actively dodge that many blows and the mitigation outperforms avoidance.

This isn't some new thing. It's pretty standard in modern games and works quite well. It's expected.

 

In the Deep Dives they kept talking about wanting to focus on player skill and less on gear. I'd be all for active dodges and the like.

 

So after reading the magic-combat-crafting-skills mega thread it would appear that the light armor track is the closest you could get to a 'pure' dodgy only character. I would assume that a character with max stats in light armor could stand up to an opposing character with max stats in heavy armor assuming their offensive skills are also on par.

 

one problem you cant actively dodge ( thy dont want twitch gamers).
curently you got a skill that you can use to dodge the next attack ( or increase likelihood you dodge it ) .

i just see one problem in this :
light armor = dodge , nimble and stuff will be active skills so thy will have to come up as your cards.
heavy armor = even whitout the cards for block/parry you will still be harder to dmg becous you are wearing plate mail.

i woud olso like to see some passive skills high up in the skilltree like :
light armor = increase in your passive dodge while wearing light/no armor .
heavy armor = decrease in durebilaty loss of your heavy armor .

becous if thy stay somewat realistic you will have to do a lot more repairs of your plate mail then your leather armor.
leather armor = try to dodge
plate mail = try to block or use your armor to deflect.

ps: everyone shoud have the dodge skill and be able to max it no matter the armor path you take.
but i woud put it on a sliding stamina cost ( so the more weight you carry the more stamina it cost you to do it)
so yes a dude in plate mail can dodge but the one in leather armor can do it a lot more before he is out of stamina ( or watever thy call the blue barr )

 

As a Light armor person maybe your cards show just a moment sooner
Tanks still have parry and damage absorb so having both skills may need to slow the cards an additional moment.