Best stuff store only - disappointing Coto merchants

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dayero, Aug 24, 2018.

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  1. Nelzie

    Nelzie Avatar

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    Forced PvP will never be profitable in a game like this.

    Forced PvP only works in FPS.

    The market has proven that, over and over and over again for the past 20 years.

    Every single time some new publisher says, "Hey, you know what will be f'ing awesome? Let's make a Forced PvP MMO, because I LOVE that S%#T!"

    6 Months or less after release, they tone that back, make it consensual or... the never break any barriers, never make it very profitable. So, that's a moot point to suggest.

    POTs have already proven to be pretty awesome and solid. If they go sideways, they will figure something out to correct for that problem, but that's not likely going to happen for a good many, many years and when that day does arrive, I'll get behind what they need to do.

    On paper, all sorts of things are amazing and awesome, when reality sets in... things have to change. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.
     
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  2. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    So you avoid answering the question. Got it.
     
  3. MrBlight

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    Not to rifle feathers..
    But do u classifiy Shaiya, Warhammer online, DaoC and MMOs like thst as forced PvP? And if not, can you give some examples of MMOs that are forced PvP ?
    Genuinly curious.
     
  4. Nelzie

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    Forced PvP is no choice, but to PvP, as in there are no safe zones or VERY limited safe zones, like the original UO, which is where I started playing MMOs.

    I've only heard of Warhammer Online and I know that while it was initially super popular with over 800,000 subscriptions... they dropped to less than 300,000 barely 6 months in, back in 2008 and... Where are they with subscriptions today? They shut down back in 2013, not enough users to sustain the game, because that's a niche market, within a niche market.

    The rest of the games you are presenting are also, all quite old. Is there a modern, as in recently released game with the kind of PvP you're attempting to present that are very popular, mass appeal, etc., etc.? Consensual PvP, usually in "arenas" or on special fields of battle seem to be the norm these days.

    Where's the big budget recently released MMO with open world, no choice PvP? It doesn't have to be a AAA title. It can be a smaller one, but it does have to have mass appeal with "ganking newbs" as a core mechanic, because that's what forced PvP means.

    I only see that in games made specifically for that, First Person Shooters.
     
  5. Nelzie

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    Suggest something that is actually plausible, in relation to how the market has matured over the last 20 years.

    Like, how about if they changed crafting to require ONLY resources that have to be broken down from looted gear, no mining, no refining. Just simplified, but aggravating because you have to play the game ALL the time to get the parts you need for making an item. Lots of modern games do that...

    ...or adding in loot boxes that require special keys which could be bought with COTOs. From an income perspective, that would be great for the investors, but I would be extremely pissed off and unhappy with that, as it really has made it so that I don't even want to play Star Trek Online anymore and I have owned a lifetime account since before that game was originally launched.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
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  6. Greyfox

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    PVP in SOTA will never be a success. PVP is "cheap" content but the cost is enormous with endless balance issues and griefing causing people to leave. This has been proven by the nifty "new" PVP death match arenas that are now barren. Anyone even go to The Obsidian Trial now? It's empty when I visit.

    Player created content is actually a perfect fit for SOTA, the engine is capable of supporting, and most importantly will help to fund the game. You can't get cheaper content than freely created by your player base. Winner!
     
  7. MrBlight

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    I mean..
    I quoted you as you said that open world forced pvp games dont work, the market has proved it.

    Im asking what games your using as an example for that conclusiom?
    I just picked popular mmos that are heavy based PvP as trying to get a baseline for your original point.
    Warhammer was consensual pvp.. with level based battlegrounds, and yes is quite old but is still up n running.
    Daoc.. was consensual agian.. just large amount of content was pvp focused.

    My original question was what MMO forced PvP gsmes are you thinking when you made that post ?
     
  8. Nelzie

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    Portalarium has done the best that they can do with regards to PvP. It's become the norm in successful RPG MMO's for people to be able to flag PvP all the time or not. Some (and by that, I do mean a very small percentage of overall users) love that and will do that all the time, even on brand spanking new newb characters.

    Yeah, it "ruins" the ability to lord power over far weaker characters, I know that sometimes, when I see a MUCH lower leveled and skilled character flagged for PvP, I briefly think how cool it might be to just ruin that player's hour, but... that's just bullying BS, I don't need the feeling of "fake power" that provides. I'm no powerful in the real world, but I'm not weak either.
     
  9. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    I find stocking up COTO is not as valuable as store credits since I can't use them for bundle or POT upgrades.

    I cancel the $9 subscription since I don't find it worth the money and decide to do manual $5 purchase in-store items if I find the monthly rewards or any add on items worth getting month to month.

    Unless they offer a $5 subscription with at least 5 COTOs, I'll probably just stick to the manual way at this point.
     
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  10. Arkah EMPstrike

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    You can sell cotos (even at rediculously low prices) for gold in game and pay a months rent AND make a little gold at the same time
     
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  11. Nelzie

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    An additional $4 with an extra 4 COTOs on top of the $5 program you want is just to much?
     
  12. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    Yes, especially when there are many other things out there that I could/must spend the money on.

    People can get COTOs from other players for much less in bigger bulk if they really need them. If it's the monthly reward that you desire and you own more than one account, paying 2x $5 per month at least on one of the Friday will give you much more than the $9 subscription to one account.
     
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  13. Corv

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    Yeah more stuff to do with COTOs would be neat.
     
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  14. Greyfox

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    The value of a $9 Subscription is as follow:

    1) $4.50 (9) COTO $4.5 Depending upon where you buy and how many $.50 per is about the best deal
    2) $5.00 Telethon participation, also nice for people who travel, or might miss a telethon. Automatic participation.
    3) $1.50 (3) Obsidian Potions mostly equal value to a COTO. Also nice to sell in game for gold.
    4) $0.00 Title is MEH, but some might enjoy this. No value to me.
    5) $1.33 Every 6 months a dye pack. These sell for $8. This value might be $1 if you buy on sale.

    Total is roughly $12 for only $9. You also support a game you are playing to help ensure continued operation. I throw more money away on far less entertaining aspects of life. The subscription is a good deal.
     
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  15. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Just to understand why this topic is ongoing:
    There is a sh*t ton of stuff on the coto vendors except what i would call "services" (e.g. account upgrades, PoT upgrades, name change and so on) and extremly new stuff (e.g. the player made dungeons). So uhh...what's the issue?
     
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  16. Nelzie

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    Pick some MMOs that are brand new and just released. Warhammer Online was pulled from the market in 2013 and only exists in very limited community backed servers.

    Star Wars Galaxies originally had open world PvP and they left that, many years before the closed that game. I seem to recall it wasn't much more than within the 1st or 2nd year that they implemented controls. Thanks to groups like GOONsquad.

    Ultima Online originally had open world PvP and got away from that.

    Conan was supposed to be all open world PvP, how long did that aspect of the game last? I know they later came out with a special server for that, but is that the largest bulk of their player base or nah?

    There's all these whispers and rumors of to be released in the next year or two MMOs that are supposed to have openworld PvP, but... every time one of those are released, if they stick hard to the open world PvP, they end up folding. So, most will immediately, if not before the game is out of final Beta testing, implement some kind of flagging system. That's the market speaking, really loudly.

    They have to do that, because every single game will draw social miscreants who only derive pleasure from "ganking newbs" and all that does is drive people out of the game. Open world PvP is the way you shutdown servers and drive accounts away. Heck, if you look at the posts by all of the hardcore open PvP supporters in this forum, all of them walk right up to, but perform the most amazing mental gymnastics to attempt to hide the fact that they just want to be able to gank newbs. I've directly asked several of them and they just try their best to walk around the question.

    They're working on implementing some kind of extremely harsh penalty system into Star Citizen, but I almost guarantee that they WILL end up implementing flagging before it's finally released. PvP players will be able to be open, all the time and the rest of us will be able to choose when or if we ever do any missions that MIGHT require PvP.

    Elite: Dangerous has an incredible control system for that, you play with only your friends, solo or Open World PvP. I bet if one looked at the numbers... there's probably not as many Open World Players as there are of the former two.

    Open world PvP without a flagging system is just not viable in today's marketplace. An MMO can have every single thing that I want in a game, every feature, every amazing fever dream of awesome that I want, but if it features open world PvP without flagging system, I will not waste a penny of my money, because I have no desire to have my limited hours of fun impacted by someone named "Lahd M3G4 G4nk5t3r". There's so many people like me, with disposable income, a major interest in gaming, but almost no free time to devote to dealing with clawing back after being ganked, yet again.
     
  17. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    To me at least, those shizzle tons of stuff on the COTO vendors are either not appealing enough or already own them. So there isn't much incentive to stock up COTOs, especially they cannot be used for these so-called "services".

    These services used to be things that worth working toward in conjunction with telethons in form of store credits. We cannot do that anymore since all our store credits are converted into COTOs, which significantly limited our options compare to what we had before. That is the issue.
     
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  18. Solazur

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    heh. especially if you get the players to pay for the "mats" they need to build said content ;-)

    Ornate anyone?

    :)
     
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  19. Nelzie

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    I just hope that they give us really good tools to make "world class" dungeons.

    With stories, with the ability to keep multiple versions up in separate places that lead from one to another.

    I would LOVE to craft a series of dungeons that has a story leading up to a confrontation with a final boss that is talked about in the previous dungeons AND has the option for some nifty loot that a player can add to their dungeon.

    Yes, being able to create something will be awesome and meaningful on its own, but... it would be really sweet of there is some kind of mechanic to reward a player who crafts a popular dungeon or series. Nothing over the top, but something of interesting value beyond a "We'd like to thank so and so for making their dungeons." in some email.
     
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  20. Woodchuck

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    I learned this the hard way. I made a purchase on the add-on store and had a change of mind, so I requested for basically store credit so that I could apply my paid amount to other item(s).

    I wasn’t asking for a refund. I was clear on this - just asking for credit since I want to support the game. I was ignored. -_-

    Edit: Even though there is a sh*t ton of stuff on the COTO merchants, they don’t have everything. For me, I wish there were new items added to the add-on store on a daily/weekly basis. If they want to raise money this should be a priority.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
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