Brewing: What to Expect and what else we want.

Discussion in 'Crafting & Gathering' started by ThurisazSheol, Feb 20, 2016.

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  1. ThurisazSheol

    ThurisazSheol Avatar

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    I'm starting this thread to outline what i think we can expect with the brewing subcraft, and what we, the brewers, would like to see added to the system at a later date (if not added from the start)..

    Disclaimer: Just remember Starrs mantra, as this is all speculation until they can get hands-on with the code: DLMB!
    _______________________________________________________________

    update: 12/31/2016 - @DarkStarr just announced the following in his Q1 2017 Schedule Update post, "RELEASE 40, March 30, 2017" section:


    _______________________________________________________________


    update: 9/29/2016 - they just mentioned brewing in the 2016 q4 schedule post. this means we need to start inundating them with emails forum posts, and the likes about brewing!

    _______________________________________________________________



    what to expect:
    built into the current crafting system with all its nuances.
    drag drag click done.
    brewing station (it looks more suitable for distilling hooch/engine degreaser, not brewing, by the way)

    what to expect when polished:
    less cookie cutter, hopefully a small minigame so outcomes can be varied.

    system tie ins:
    nutrition - affects EVERYTHING, kind of like a 'luck' modifier in some games.
    Cooking - without this, you can't brew!
    Alchemy - metheglyns, stat modifiers at higher level brews.
    Farming - when you pick the hops/barley/honey/grapes/fruits/etc affects the overall taste.
    Weather - weather during harvest and fermentation affects taste and ABV.
    Astrology - when you harvest affects the taste
    Harvesting - from plants to animals (cows, chickens) to minerals.

    what we want to see, if not now, in the future.

    Variety!
    Beer, Wine, Ale, Mead, Whiskey, Rum, Vodka, Bourbon, Sccotch, Metheglin, Cough Syrup, etc.

    Later on, we'd like to see even more types... rhy whisky, rieslings, single malts, etc.

    Options.
    To be able to age as long as we want, in-game time - which modifies the results of the brew itself. To be able to create engine degreaser/hooch, as well as well aged cordials fit for a king.

    we want these aging barrels to take up real estate in the game. - the assets are already in the game (see top floor, firelotus tavern).

    we want tapped kegs and pony kegs to be able to place on shelves in taverns, where we can place a brew of our choice in there, and label them, and lock the label in place. i'd like to be able to futher interact with these kegs, and fill a mug with the brew inside it.

    UPDATE 9/9/16 9/13/16: Richard has confirmed with me that we can age as long as we want. He intoned that we will set a time (he used 50 years), and literally 40 weeks later, we take the next step in the process. that tells me, that there WILL be fermentation and aging barrels in game, and they WILL take up space.




    aging the brews gives a boost to whatever positive boosts(buffs) the brew provides. non-aged brews give a base length of buff, but a 6 week aged adds X% of time while aging for a year makes that an exponenctial increase. - basicaly increasing the costs of the more rare (aged) brews.

    tools:
    hydrometers
    aging barrels
    taps/corks

    buildable brewing stations:
    materials:
    aging barrels (already planned, confirmed by LB) - woods and metals and ropes.
    Fermenting Barrels and/or glass carboys - different woods, metals and/or ropes.
    copper pots x2 - copper sheets and copper rivets
    Copper cooling coils for expert stations.
    oars for stirring in the big pots. - wood planks
    small stack of wood for low level stations, large stack of wood for expert and above level stations.

    lets use a hot tub to mash grapes!
    lets attach a windmill to grind hops!

    Custom naming of the brews.
    Bowens Biddable Brew, Thuri's Thrice Brewed Mead, Docs Squirrel Spit Solution



    @majoria70 came up with this idea not too long ago, generally applied to all crafting. I"ll put it into a brewing slant to see how it goes:
    how about adding a slot during the crafting (in this case, post-fermentation where you add flavors), for a random thing.. like fish scales, or a stack of leather or coffee beans, or spider webs, or heck an axe or 2 year whiskey.. what that slot does is give you a mostly random effect to your final brew, somehow related to the items you placed in the slot.. like a 2 year whiskey will add extra potency to the batch and get you drunk REAL fast.. or an axe will raise your DPS for a short time, or the fish scales will let you swim faster or breathe underwater (if underwater gets implemented as a thing) for a time. length, duration, potency, of the effect is directly proportionate to how many you add (in a stack, drag and drop style) to that slot. but still somewhat random as to exactly WHAT the effect is, and if it is positive or negative, only knowable by the person who imbibes the brew.




    Skill Tree:
    - We want different forks for each type (wine/mead, beer/ale, liquors) and a straight-line branch on the right for things like the ABV, name tweaking, etc.
    - general proficiency skill
    - one that raises the chance of winning a minigame
    - one that raises a chance of throwing a crit for some special attributes to the brew (higher percentage chance and better attributes as it levels up)
    - one that gives certain other attributes once the brews are aged a set amount of time (shorter times as it levels up)
    - one at the end of its own branch, that lets you significantly raise the ABV, which raises any attributes, but also gets you much more drunk (within the nutrition system that can be a bad thing at a certain threshhold) - aand as you raise skill in that, the attributes get higher while the ABV gets lower.
    - passive skill that levels up on how many brews you consume, and level faster upon experiencing the negative side effects (vomiting, blackouts, death). even drunks tend to learn from our mistakes, so as that skill levels up, we experience fewer negative side effect events. (also making it harder to level up the passive)

    two things i'd love to see for crafted tools by journeyman and above - for all crafting/harvesting tools not just brewing tools - the tool is much more rugged if it has YOUR makers mark, and it can even have your name on the item (Thuri's Hydrometer) itself. reasoning: you are much more familliar with everything about the craft and the tools. example in gaming: ES4: Oblivion - blacksmithing perks.

    at expert and above, specific to crafting tools not harvesting tools - i'd like to also see boosts to the minigame outcomes and proc percentages higher, maybe even custom things like...if i always use this hydrometer for only whisky - it will turn all whisky's i brew with it, into rye whiskies, (as just one example), or maybe boosts ABV in all things (which would raise intoxication levels in nutrition system, and healing effects in metheglins)


    also please allow for us to modify the liquids themselves.. a good nonpasturized guiness in dublin, is so much more enjoyable than a nappy ice here in america.. so light medium and dark brews, should all have effects too... even making you burp if you add too much carbonation which can also intensify the slurring woozyness and visual effects.

    update 9/13/2016: LB stated at DC that while this is a really neat feature, it will not have much of an effect on the game mechanics itself. he stated he would love to see this implemented it would be much lower on the priority list than other aspects of the game. from what he could tell, this is mostly just a descriptive feature. personally i disagree, it can have some basic tie-ins to the nutritional system once that is fully implemented. for example, a thick heavy dubbel could fill you up with carbs like a bread would. a highly carbonated brew could speed up your metabolism so its effects are stronger but shorter lived - and all other spell effects are also shorter lived too. just two examples.

    update: 11/4/2016
    brew requests: thanks to @x_Selene_x 's post here, i'm adding a new section on requests. thanks!

    Easily made with things in game:

    Green tea
    Black Tea
    Apple Spice tea
    milk tea
    Iced Tea
    Sweet Tea
    Spiced Apple Cider
    Hot caramel apple cider
    Lemonade
    Kombucha
    Banana Milkshake
    vanilla milkshake
    tomato juice
    apple juice
    grape juice
    fruit punch
    coconut water
    cream soda
    butter beer
    water
    milk
    Pumpkin Spiced Tea/Latte

    Would need some new crops (coffee beans, nutmeg, and cacao beans):
    coffees/ lattes
    hot chocolate
    chocolate milk
    chocolate milkshakes
    eggnog


    adding the list made me realize we need to start being able to harvest cows as well. if you fail at the harvest, have the cow kick you a few feet away and lose some hitpoints (25% of max maybe?). heck, we can have chocolate cows too!
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  2. Bowen Bloodgood

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    What I want to see..

    Custom naming would be nice..

    Also a large variety. Not just ales but wines, hard liquors etc..
     
  3. ThurisazSheol

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    made some modifications based on your response, bowen. :)
     
  4. Adam Crow

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    Is the system for brewing going to be it's own skill tree? Would be great if you could specialize in the specific brew(s) of your choice. Love the suggestions above, especially being able to age however long for varied results.
     
  5. ThurisazSheol

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    I'd love to see it in its own skill tree as well. Sadly that is something we'll have to wait and see for ourselves. I've asked the question about a year ago and at the time they did not have an answer.

    Looking at the Skills menu - I believe it is certainly possible to create its own tree, without disturbing the others. Right now they have what seem to be placeholders with just the 'proficiency' skills, and i'm certain they will flesh those out too - so why not hold out hope? :)

    @Adam Crow - which skills would you like to see in a tree like this?

    I'd like to see a general proficiency skill
    one that raises the chance of winning a minigame
    one that raises a chance of throwing a crit for some special attributes to the brew (higher percentage chance and better attributes as it levels up)
    one that gives certain other attributes once the brews are aged a set amount of time (shorter times as it levels up)
    and one at the end of its own branch, that lets you significantly raise the ABV, which raises any attributes, but also gets you much more drunk (within the nutrition system that can be a bad thing at a certain threshhold) - aand as you raise skill in that, the attributes get higher while the ABV gets lower.

    i'll add to the post once we get some ideas or refine what i've made.
     
  6. Elnoth

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    I have a suspicion it will be tied in with the alchemy tree - as alcohol will be the base ingredient for potions.
     
  7. ThurisazSheol

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    i know it will be tied of course, but i'm not 100% certain on HOW closely it will be tied - see, early on I got some confirmation from LB that there will be potions, and there will ALSO be metheglins (potions with an alcohol base), AND there will be general brewing too. - i do not think all potions will be alcohol based, and different attributes will be tied to them.

    he said the alcohol based ones may heal you faster, but also cause you to get drunk, which will also impair your ability to fight..and potentially make you pass out, get sick, maybe even die from alcohol poisoning all while not imposing a hard limit on how many you can consume. - and those without the alcohol base, can only be had in X number of doses within some timeframe, and heal you slower, maybe even be the HOTs instead of instaheals.

    while alchemy and brewing can be very similar, and i hope they can work together (doing some alchemy before starting a brew on a metheglin, to make the desired effect, for example - if you just make the brew without the alchemic formula as one ingredient, it is simply booze)

    the potions that are not alcohol based, i do not think should be directly tied to brewing, and i think should be directly tied to alchemy itself, and when attached to a brew as an ingredient, their base attributes change due ot the chemical reaction.

    the blending of the two crafts (alchemy with the subcraft of brewing) could be what makes the metheglins and seperates the brewing apart as its own thing too. maybe some people will want to simply brew, while others wish to be known for their potions, while even others (like myself) be known for their healing and restorative brews.
     
  8. Elnoth

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    What I would like to see is perhaps any buff you might get from drinking aged liquor (merry buff maybe, increases focus regen? Or perhaps relaxing the body reduces fizzle by a small amount?) is extended by the age of the liquor. So you drink a virgin liquor, and get a short buff duration. Drink something thats 4 NBT years (a couple of months IRL) will give you a long duration buff. That would be cool :)
     
  9. Adam Crow

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    I'd love to have a passive skill that increases based solely on how much alcohol you've consumed over your lifetime. As it increases, it could lower the ABV effect for each beverage and at the same time give a small boost to the positive effects of the brew. Essentially a tolerance could be built up and make drinking a little more effective over time. I've gotten pretty good at drinking over the years, I hardly even throw up anymore :)
     
  10. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    I just want to make the beer thicker like Guinness Or more watery like everything else. ;)
     
  11. ThurisazSheol

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  12. Lord Blackthorne

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  13. ThurisazSheol

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    thanks to this thread, by @CharlieChaos i updated a copule things.

    adding taps/corks, and aging barrels to the tools
    requesting that the aging barrels take up real estate in the game.
     
  14. Time Lord

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    ~A Drunken Spawn~o_O Drinking allot?

    I want thieve NPCs to show up the more drunk you get, with a mix of good guys, ruffians and thieves.
    The good guys can be complementary, insulting, or trying to pick you up.
    The ruffians can be trying to pick a fight, or outright assaulting people.
    The thieves can attempt or succeed in stealing things from you.

    In this way, it becomes a mini karma quest to see which NPCs a player attacks or brushes off with their drunken skills.
    Calling for a cab is out of the question, because they all want to interact with the drunk person wherever they go o_O...
    This would give all the peasants and beggars in town something to do, possibly attracting them to you instead of a spawn of them...
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  15. Latnem

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    Perfect! I think having something like this with brewing / potions helps a lot of different parts of the game as well as add immersion! Thanks for looking me in here
     
  16. Selene

    Selene Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    After the extremely limited treatment of farming (no skills, few crops, etc), my hope for an involved brewing system is a little diminished. But I'd LOVE to see wine making included in the alcohol process with the option for red, whites, and mixes with differing stats depending on the types of grapes and percentages.
     
  17. ThurisazSheol

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    hm... ok, i'ma quote something from the OP and then ask a question, TL.

    how about an added attribute to this, or maybe a second passive skill that lowers the chance of the negative events you depicted and raising the chance of the positive ones.... the more experienced drunkards would have more fun things happening, than bad things.....

    also, in my experiences, usually when people are REALLY intoxicated, and if they have a tendency to abscond with items while in that state, they are usually small things like lighters, or salt shakers, bottle openers...not big things like priceless artifacts.... so maybe if you have some of those fun experiences, you pick up a few extra mugs, a set of silverware, several pieces of granite... :) if you are grouped with people and you both have an incident, maybe you switch some clothing or something lol

    i also think that farming (among many other systems in place) isn't finished, that it is a placceholder for more later. but i'm hoping that they can take threads like this to the next level when they have the time to devote to this type of thing, post-final-wipe. that is my main goal, to give them a jumping off point so they can literally start running with it with a repository of ideas. yeah, i'm trying to stay positive here too. :)
     
  18. Bubonic

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    All I want to see at this point is actual information from the devs.
     
  19. ThurisazSheol

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    *bump* - time is coming close for us to start spamming about brewing, folks. as soon as cooking is implemented in the next couple releases, they can then START to look at brewing.
     
  20. Bubonic

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    From the R33 post mortem:

    Bubonic
    • Can we please get some information on the plans for brewing beer? STARR: Yes, but not now sadly. Q4


    (╯°°)╯┻━┻

    I have to assume Q4 means Q4 2016, which would mean starting in a few weeks. So maybe we will hear something next next release.
     
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