Chat UI feedback

Discussion in 'Avatars & NPCs' started by Drake Aedus, Mar 27, 2015.

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  1. Beaumaris

    Beaumaris Avatar

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    It does seem that we should be able to get more use out of a mouse. I largely use the mouse for attacks and camera movement. I try to do everything else with the keyboard. My concern with mouse-only movement is ergonomic. Engaging a mouse button nearly full time to run feels more fatiguing than holding down a 'W' key for some reason. Maybe it has something to do with which fingers are getting arthritis first!

    An alternative solution to the competing keyboard needs of WASD movement vs. chat issue might be to use of the number pad for movement. Given the number of keys available, it provides for more movement directions (or perhaps the addition of camera controls) than do the arrow keys. And jumping can be programmed to be the '+' which is easy to use while running with the num pad keys. The issue though is that not all laptops have separate num pads. And after so many years of WASD movement, it can take a little patience to use another hand :)
     
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  2. Lained

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    It's all about the user intent and the only way to intuit that if you're not relying on what element has the focus is to base it on their recent key presses, its content and duration between them.
     
  3. Spoon

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    How about using CAPS lock to switch between "chat keyboard" and "UI keyboard"?
    Where double click on NPC/player switch for us, and "bye" or x-close switches back.

    Then it takes an active action from the user to switch, so less mistakes.

    Have an icon that toggles with the CAPS lock and people can click that as well to switch.
     
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  4. Fikule

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    I can't imagine a first/third person game without WASD movement.

    If the game was UO-Style Isometric I would picture it, but not here.

    I think making the A-Z keys for chat at all times would be very limiting, especially when pretty much everyone these days expects these keys to be used for movement, inventory, action, logs, etc. It's a standard that works.
     
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  5. Gubbles

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    Don't support simultaneous chatting and control. Taking inspiration from the world's best text editor, Vi, why not just use <ESC> to exit chat mode, and keep <ENTER> to begin chat. Provide a good visual indicator that displays which mode the user is in; chat or control.
     
  6. Drocis the Devious

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    I don't know anyone that needs to move and chat at the same time. Nor do I know anyone that fights and chats at the same time. (I'd love it if we had a combat system that allowed for more of this - i.e. turn based elements, but we don't have that)

    What I don't understand is why we don't have an area of the screen that is simply a chatting window, it's always a chatting window. If your mouse is in the chatting window, you're chatting, if it's not then you're not. This goes back to the original MUD interfaces where telnet sessions first began to introduce GUI in an integration between text based and graphical MUDs.

    So you put a chat window on the left hand side of the screen and it just scrolls CHAT - always. If you're chatting, you never JUMP. But when you're fighting you can ALWAYS see chat. The reason I like this solution is that I no longer have to have a chat window in my field of view while fighting or moving about. If I'm in combat mode, there's ZERO chance of accidentally moving into the chat screen because as long as I'm moving or swiveling my head around with my mouse, the game can stop me from mousing over into the chat window.

    AND, having the chat window on the left side of the screen gives me a better understanding of what's going on socially because I'll be able to scroll more text than I would if I just had a little window somewhere inside my field of view.

    SLI could also be supported to great effect here too.

    Here's how it looks currently:
    [​IMG]

    This is kind of a mock up of what I'm talking about:
    [​IMG]

    Of course I realize that not everyone has the same resolution or screen size. But it's A LOT better in my opinion for gaming. It could still be adjustable, but it would clearly place a NEEDED separation between chat and combat/movement. This is something I suggested like a year ago. :)

    Seriously, I have two windows open on my computer, one for IRC and one for SOTA. I never have the slightest problem going between the two windows. It's literally PERFECT for me if I wanted to chat in IRC and also play SOTA.

    So why would we not do this in SOTA for the in-game chat window?

    There's nothing unimmerssive about this. It's actually MORE immerssive because now I have less junk in my field of view (into the world of New Britannia). The Paperdoll, the list inventory, it should all go over on the left of the screen in my opinion. Again, I understand that not everyone is using a 21 inch monitor and dual graphics cards. But if it worked in the 80's (and it did) then it can work here too.
     
  7. AndiZ275

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    I really really really miss mouse and mouse click movement (at least as an option; keyboard movement might be more precise and flexible for harder content, but mouse click movement gives you time for other stuff and lets you relax a bit in more peaceful times or while harvesting stuff). Strangely there aren't many MMOs who allow this option, which is a shame in my opinion. You might take a look into the (now dated) Runes of Magic, where the alternative movement by mouse click worked just fine.

    Cheers,
    Andreas
     
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  8. Duffrey Blake

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    I fully support Tarsin here. Please do not restrict flexibility and customizabilty of the gui and make it as in ultima IX. Its a good solution to just use the 'ENTER' key for focus on the chat window and another one (or maybe the same) for exit the chat mode. This keys should be bindable via the controls menu so everyone can choose to their liking.
    The keys should also be dedicated just for that purpose and once bound not usable for any other function. Example: the escape key could not be bound because it already has dedicated functions that could not be changed (open menu, close unpinned windows etc.).

    Oh btw. please free the 'ALT' key again and make it bindable as a modifier.
     
  9. Hraw

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    What you are describing happens to me all the time - I've been thinking about what would address it. It seems to me the real issue is that I neglect to press [ENTER] before I start typing chat ... so I came up with the following pseudo code (much preferable to me over requiring ctrl+ or alt+ for pulling up interface items) ... easy to implement and does not require any netcode traffic. It would be easy to let user turn this new "auto chat" behavior on and off with a checkbox if desirable.

    Code:
     
    declare and define a "global" keypress queue in the game client so that every
    keypress is inserted to the end of the queue with a tickcount "timestamp" ;
     
    /* inside game client function that processes each keypress event */
    insert keypress event to end of our queue with timestamp ;
    while (keypress event queue length > 0 &&
    		the 1st keypress event in the queue is not a-z nor A-Z) {
    	process 1st keypress event ;
    	remove 1st keypress event from the queue ;
    }
    if (keypress event queue length > 0) {
    	/* at this point we know there is a non-empty keypress event queue
    			and the first keypress is a-z or A-Z */
    	if (game client currently presents a flashing carat in a chat input window ||
    			player is currently targeting an enemy with a red outline) {
    		process all events in the keypress event queue ;
    		empty the queue ;
    	}
    	else if (# of elapsed ms since 1st keypress event in the queue > 500 )	//half second delay
    	{
    		if (keypress event queue length > 1) {
    			if (2nd keypress event is a-z or A-Z) {
    				//here we "press Enter" for the user
    				put game client into chat mode so as to present
    				flashing carat in the chat input window ;
    			}
    		}
    		process all events in the keypress event queue ;
    		empty the queue ;
    	}
    }
    
     
  10. Sindariya

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    I think this is just a matter of concentration, training and toggling the right options. Over the last releases I learned how to move, do stuff and handling several conversations over the chat. But I'm tired of this WASD movement system. It is old fashioned and antiquated. I would love to put the whole movement on my 5 button mouse, especially jumping. Not for chatting, more for fighting.
    If you want to solve this problem, you have to use key-combination, which makes the usability of the system worse or use a toggle button, which puts you in chat-mode when window open and out of it, when pressed again. Spoon brough up this idea and I totally support it. If we can than also got a full 5button mouse support I would be really happy.
     
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  11. majoria70

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    Also lol sometimes I do want to chat and move at the same. I might be showing someone around and I don't always want to stand around to say every single word or else the tour would take forever. Right now I do it a bit, but it's kind of like texting while driving would be(not as RL dangerous), but in game dangerous since I use the numblock key and don't get stopped always in time. Like George and the jungle song "Watch out for that Tree" ;) Since we have such talking to other player and talking to NPCs as such a huge game feature. It is very important that it does need to function and work really well so people don't get frustrated with it.;)
     
  12. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    I feel the problem here is the lack of visual indicators to let us know what mode (chat/control) we're in at any given moment. I believe the only way to know we're in 'chat mode' right now is to see a little blinking line in the chat window. That's really easy to miss. I also commonly have the problem of the chat window disappearing right when I don't want it to, but that's not the problem LB is discussing here.

    If the chat window could have 2 different shades of color, one color could represent 'active' the other 'inactive' - so we know if the chat window is a shade of gold (highlighted), we're in chat mode and need to hit 'escape' before trying to move. If the chat window is a shade of black (not highlighted), we're not in chat mode, and need to hit 'Enter' or 'Shift-Alpha character' before typing a sentence to prevent unwanted jumping. Also, the chat window should never disappear while wee're in chat mode.
     
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  13. Jack Knyfe

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    In the long run, perhaps a selection of control schemes could be implemented?

    "Futuristic" = chat is handled by voice commands and voice-to-text interface
    "Modern" = what we have now
    "Classic" = Ultima IX or similar
    "Antique" = no mouse
     
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  14. Duffrey Blake

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    I support voice to text (and may be text to voice?) since I am not very fast with typing letters ;). It is a fresh approach and would fit very good for SotA because of this.
     
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  15. Net

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    I just use autorun when I want to move and chat. Wish the default was (-) key on Numpad instead of numlock though, I alwasy mess up messages with numlock turned off when I try to type any number :)

    There is no time to chat in combat. And when there is time, then you do not need to fight that hard.
     
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  16. Link_of_Hyrule

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    I would love to see full controller support as well as mouse support eventually since it would be nice now that I can stream PC games to my TV but playing with a mouse and keyboard on my bed doesn't feel very good.
     
  17. Drake Aedus

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    Update for R17.
     
  18. DarkRenzo

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    Dear gods... PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF SANITY have chatbox default settings to CHAT not exp not emotes not dmg not NPC. so when it resets every scene change damage exp npc emotes flood chat and we cant see anything, we have to use 3rd party programs to chat to guildies or they just dont see it so those of us with no mic are pretty much loners we cnt call for heals or backup.

    If we really wanna see all the other crap we can enable as needed

    wud be nice to have Party/Guild voice chat in game on the chat UI with a push to talk and easy way to mute ppl who abuse it, some guilds pay for chat programs, you would be doing something to support players who support the game by adding this, even if it was just a party feature. i know its "easier said than done" and will put more load on servers but its something to think about atleast, the chat UI is the biggest let down atm severely damaging communication between players in game.

    an example:

    A new player was talking to me in greymark, he wasnt sure how to play or what to do and was asking question to any player they saw, none saw his question. Luckily i came acorss them, they was ready to quit playing due to how difficult the game is to pick up n play atm. that person is now happily leveling and i introduced them to crafting and pointed them towards the quests.
    now we have a new happy player, but how many get missed? how many dont enjoy their sota experiance and simply log out thinking the game is aweful and the ppl are ignorent.

    one possibility is for a secondary PM systems, first u get an alert upon getting a PM then it cud open a small chat box on screen once u accept the alert where the 2 can then type, seperate of the main chat box. ive used this exact system be4 and its great, even making it so others can be added to the "PM box" and creating a group chat.
     
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  19. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Hmm, all of those are good suggestions but reading them makes me think how talking to the NPCs will fit into this. Right now talking to NPCs is a chat. But I doubt that it will work anymore with some if not many of the very good improvements some mentioned here. So I wonder how conversations with NPCs will work in the future...
    A suggestion:
    I am hoping for "bubbles", text that appears above the head of the NPCs. Now if we choose to write our questions then a small window pops up in the middle of the screen into which we write our sentences. If we choose to click on keywords, then we can click those highlighted keywords directly in the "bubble". As long as we don't press a key, the "parser"-window will not pop up. The last sentence the NPC was saying should stay visible until we say goodbye or end the conversation. We should also be able to scroll through everything the NPC said in the "bubble" so that we do not miss keywords.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  20. Bubonic

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    Chatting with your party while running to a destination is a relatively common occurrence. You really don't know anyone who does this? And hell no, don't take up an entire section of my monitor with a seperate chat window! :p
     
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