Crowns should not be able to repair durability

Discussion in 'Wishlist Requests' started by oplek, Aug 28, 2020.

  1. oplek

    oplek Avatar

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    Items should permanently break so the crafting economy has a purpose.
     
  2. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    They should do this so that you can see exactly what kind of crafting economy you get. I'll just keep crafting my own gear.
     
  3. oplek

    oplek Avatar

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    If only we could open up parallel universes to try things out.

    I don't agree. I think the economy would re-calibrate away from the idea of permanent high-end gear.

    When I start a new game, and have little more than twigs and rocks to fight with, I'll take anything I can get my hands on. Even now, I'll often grab something from a vendor that's "close enough" to what I need. I'm saying this as a non-crafter, by the way. The biggest obstacle for me buying stuff from vendors is finding that stuff. But otherwise, what a person is willing to accept is a matter of perspective. Most of us are used to the ultra-calibrated ultra-crafted gear, and wouldn't accept less.

    The prices would probably drop... because instead of pouring inconceivable amounts of resources into producing that "perfect" piece (assuming we still have RNG at this point), "decent" items can still just go onto a vendor and be purchased, because the demand catches up to the supply. And since that decent item didn't require 10 false starts to achieve, its costs wouldn't have to account for those failures.

    I'm more than willing to grab those decent items, because I don't have unrealistic expectations. And it saves me from having to do the crafting training/work.

    An economy cannot exist without sinks.
     
  4. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    There doesn't need to be a parallel universe. All they need to do is disable repairing with crowns.
    I certainly agree with this.
    Why would I buy someone else's mediocre gear when I can craft that myself?
     
  5. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    If you want to do this, there should be less rng involved in crafting, otherwise those perfect items will still sell for super high, but you will have even less people buying because they know their item is going to blow up before they get their moneys worth. If RNG is lessened, then perfect items are easier to make, and thus will sell more, meaning people will be less hesistant to see it blow up, and will allow them to buy more. Simple process really.
     
  6. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I think there needs to be both; crowns need to be able to continue to repair things, but only to a certain degree. Say, each time you use crowns to do a major repair, it lowers the maximum durability by 20^%. So an item with 100 durability can be used and repaired (by tradeskills) until it gets very low, then can be repaired to 80 durability using crowns; then used again and repaired to 64 durability. Eventually it will need to be replaced. The way it works right now, with progressively higher crowns, can be kept to make this progression more painful.

    Thus, you *can* keep your gear, but not forever. Make a choice.

    This too.
     
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  7. Wilfred

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  8. Sorgin Txakal

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    It's already impossible to find good weapons and armor in vendors, if the master crafters didn't offload their failures but kept them to replace the good armor and weapons they make then there would never be anything decent on the vendors at all.
     
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  9. majoria70

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    I never liked that we repaired with crowns. It's a cold-hearted money grubbing system. Repair should always have been skill related and craft related. Take crowns out of the repair equation.

    Real money has no place in this mechanic.

    As anyone who knows me should know I'm all for funding the game but let it be from fun stuff such as like the bundles we used to have and fluff such as New Special mounts, ships to sail the waterways of Sota, a pirates dream bundle, A treasure hunters bundle with fun treasure hunting items like a special looking shovel ( well I do hope we have plans for a digging animation to start when looking for and discovering treasure). Prices should be reasonable as in other games for those who can and want to pay for them.

    Also as to destroyed armor that goes away to help crafters to be viable. I do not vote for this. In the name of the economy has always been detrimental to this game. Not everyone will play a social game depenendent on others no matter how some want that. Those who want mechanics to cater to group play only will inhibit the success of this game.

    Instead Give us item search ability and tools to create interesting sets of items for our vendors rather than single me against you system. How about something else? Let us list bags of interesting items and sets for sale and let us find vendors with items we might want from our vendor location and item searches.

    Edited
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
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  10. FarmerJack

    FarmerJack Bug Hunter

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    Crown repairs provide a gold sink that eventually supports the devs and the game's existence.
     
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  11. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Which is the only reason I don't suggest removing them completely. They should be used to extend the life of your favorite gear, not as a way to keep all gear forever.
     
  12. Atticus Gryphonheart

    Atticus Gryphonheart Legend of the Hearth

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    I dislike planned obsolescence. Give me the good old days when thing were built to last.
     
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  13. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    The original pitch didn't have Crowns as part of the equation at all. It was only repair kits, which lowered max durability until such point it wasn't worth using anymore. Then you get another one.

    Crown repair was added as a way to keep your favorite items, the ones you couldn't easily replace, and (when it was still a concept) save items with affinity from getting destroyed. However, the way it was implemented and the long durability life of most items, means players basically never need to replace items. That kind of destroys any real item economy, especially crafted (since artifacts are better than most if not all other items).

    So I guess its a choice between obsolescence of items, or obsolescence of crafting. One of them has to go.
     
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  14. kaeshiva

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    See, I think it should go the other way.

    The biggest reason why crafted gear has no market is that its so disposable - people just wear mediocre stuff and nobody will pay what good stuff's worth.
    If I knew if I finally nailed those perfect enchant/mw then it was forever (subject to cash sink repairs) then I'd be willing to drop a lot of cash on a nice item.
    I'd make coordinated sets for different things. The sheer amount of experimentation with different types/styles/bonuses.
    At the moment its simply too cost prohibitive to do so because it all breaks so fast and requires hundreds of hours of 'work' to even make a decent set of gear.
    With our RNG system, there's always the potential to try for better and better gear, I don't see that getting exhausted any time soon.
    And then simply add a few new set bonuses a couple times a year and you reinvigorate the market.

    Gear disposability is incompatible with our RNG crafting system. It needs to be one or the other.
    I'd be happy for gear to be disposable if it was reliably replaceable. it isn't.
     
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  15. Vesper

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    Good idea, that’s how it works currently.
     
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  16. Atticus Gryphonheart

    Atticus Gryphonheart Legend of the Hearth

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    Let me put it from this prospective and forgive me if I ramble.

    I am mostly a solo player (the original partial multiplayer aspect). I spend most of my time trying to do everything myself.

    For a while, I didn't get the chance to play often.

    For five years I found myself mostly mining for ore and hunting wolves to make my gear.

    The first thing I notices was how difficult it was to make gear I wanted to use for myself.

    That took a lot of time in the mines and hunting wolves.

    For every piece of gear worthy of me keeping, I had about 20 pieces I did not want.

    But if I salvage, I get nothing. The only thing to do is attempt to sell.

    But If I don't want that piece of equipment, who would.

    So I find myself selling them well below average cost (recently noticing I need to drop prices even lower since they are not moving).

    I am selling at less than the time it took me to acquired (The greatest cost is always man hours...not the material)

    I personally dont care if cost is below time and cost, I just dont want it in my inventory list.

    So I have no problem selling below time it took me to acquire. Beside, demand for "subpar" gear is low, so should be cheap.


    Since the Pandemic, I decided I would try to progress in the quests and build up my character.

    That's when I realize the true wear and tear on equipment.

    I initially spent COTA to restore my swords that had three teirs of enchantments, but saw that was not feasible in long term especially since I improved since first making them.

    So now, instead of grinding for gear, I am buying materials from other peeps to keep up with demand caused by wear.

    This is my choice to spend time making my own gear. I could go buy it, but I find the prices outrageous for what is being sold.

    However one immediate consequence is I have stopped taking the risk for the third tier enchantment because they break down so fast.

    As is, I am constantly buying ingots in the bulk to be able to make a new high quality weapons and armor for myself about once every two weeks.

    I am in process of acquiring an artifact that I would like to keep as my primary.

    I am still collecting slowly (finally got two rares and three uncommons since introduction...figure maybe another year before I have all the pieces) before attempting the enchantments. (I hope they "fix" the "fail penalties" by then.)

    By this time I hope to have masterwork in the planned fields to at least 120.

    This I hope will be my eventual primary. It is what I have been working toward.

    It would really suck that after I spend all this time acquiring the parts to make and after using it, it becomes obsolete after a month of use because of wear and I cannot restore to original glory using COTA.
     
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  17. Barugon

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    Exactly!
     
  18. Lazlo

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    I think the current crafting system is actually pretty good in terms of durability. You can make decent 2/2ish stuff that will last for quite a while, or you can try to cram as many encs/mws as possible for more power and have very little durability leftover in most cases .COTO repairs do reduce max durability, so a lot of stuff definitely doesn't last forever.

    The main thing that slows down the crafting market isn't that items last too long, it's that the diminishing returns on crafting skills are so steep that most people just make their own stuff because it's about as good as anything that can be made by someone with 10x as much producer xp invested. That dynamic doesn't change by making stuff break faster.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
  19. Atticus Gryphonheart

    Atticus Gryphonheart Legend of the Hearth

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    Good Point
     
  20. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    There are multiple issues with the system. To have an economy, items have to be replaced often, which either mean breaking or always having better gear available. Since we not going the direction of most MMOs with new gear tiers every year, that means breaking.

    The current crafting system is woefully inadequate for this. It's expensive, random, and produces mediocre gear. It was supposed to be the best, but it's not. And the RNG makes it impossible to get gear that is worth using. Despite this, it still doesn't break quickly enough for most players to need replacements.
     
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