Did you hear the new Refining skills being added Q1?

On the telethon, they mentioned these new refining skill trees so that smelting ore would give more ingots, milling would get more from logs... Also skills that allow you to smelt faster, mill faster, salvage more items at a time...

I'm hoping their plan includes Farming, to harvest more & faster... Turn the crop to seed... Water drawing as a skill... Fertilizers add a fish or chicken carcass or vegetable when planting...

They could also move carapace & suede & tin, nickel, tungsten, barks & borers from gathering to refining instead, have skills to increase those output... A skill to smelt more granite from ore taking the granite out from ore nodes... This way cotton in wild or domestic form can have a chance for carapace when using textile... Tanning for more suede, butchery for more feathers & meat...

I think refining is wide open...

 

The implications for the 'refine more from the raw materials' they discussed are massive for the amount of mining, lumberjacking and gathering generally - with some intriguing implications, since it means that the raw material such as ore will be of much higher value to someone who can make it into two or three times as many ingots. Quite how that will pan out through the economy, I'm not sure - might mean lower skill level and newer players see prices for their gathered stuff increase, or might mean there's a lot less raw material on the market as people hoard things for when they can get a 'better result' some time in the future.

 

Clarification we said these are a Q1 goal

 

This is the best news from the devs in my perspective in a year. They have finally listened.

I have RAILED on them for years now about the fact that casuals like myself cant stand around pulling water out of a well for an hour, smelting ingots, hours doing the individual things of cooking (making 100 pie doe for example).

So even though we dont know what this is really going to look like yet, I gotta give them kudos for finally doing it.

However,

I am still concerned that the the design still favor's people who play 18 hours a day and not the casual. If they add 3 new lines in the 6 refining schools and each one takes 2 mil xp to raise, thats still 32 million crafting xp needed to reach GM's and thats not great. However, if the skills at say 60 shorten crafting time significantly on their own then much better.

But, its still a great step in the right direction.


Another idea I would like to see to help people out related to what I am doing in game right now which is killing a ton of wolves and then individually skinning every single one. Wouldn't it be nice if instead of 1 skin from each 5 wolves, only 1 in 5 wolves were skinnable after death and that one gave you 5? This would be a pretty significant step in making the game less grindy and would maintain the same statistical distribution of resources.

This can be applied to ore too, 5 times less ore nodes (or 5 times slower respawn), but 5 ore per node.

 

I would argue that if you have enough raw material to do any of those things (Save perhaps gathering water) for hours you don't qualify as Casual.

 

In short, you are actually saying that its true that a casual cant really craft in the game. I agree with you.

Lets get the opinion of others on this. Real life scenarios of my own in the past few weeks. I generally play 4-5 hours a day now on Sunday and Sat.

If I put 120 spots worth of agriculture behind my village lot and I want to grow 120 mandrake root which takes 240 buckets of water. Do you consider that not qualifying as casual?

If I just took all the wolf meat I have saved up in the past year and used it for the first time to try to make wolf surprise, is that not casual?

If I decided to start changing the 14000 hides I have stored since persistence in my chests to leather, is that not casual?

(or the 5000 cotton, or the 3000 wolf heads, 1000 bear heads, etc... still in my chest waiting for the time to do it)

If I spend every cent of gold I have on gold/silver ore and get a big pile of 1000/2000 of each and then sit down to smelt them into ingots every so often, is that not casual?


Its sounds like these new changes will dramatically help someone like me with crafting. Well done dev's.

 

its not casual but its def not hardcore... you my friend are a moderate...

 

Ya, I used to call myself a casual hard core for the first 6 months of persistence but now Im more casual. If anything Im a pack rat and my crafting chest is full of thousands of things I would like to get to refining some day

 

Here's a look at a casual horder. This is a short stream, only 1 min long. I have some mats up on vendors right now (like 10,000 hides listed in Owls). I generally sell only the suet, Beatles, obs chips and undead bones that I get. Can you imagine what a hard core player is sitting on now after a year?

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/206420743

 

If you'd taken a few minutes to refine your hides and meats and other bit as you'd collected them, rather than collecting huge piles of them and then wanting to process them all at once, it wouldn't have been a problem.

Be clear, I'm NOT arguing against the new refining skills (and await the day when plants are watered by the rain, and there are rain barrels, and other less <expletive deleted> tedious ways to collect water with great anticipation), I think they're a good thing... I just don't think your personal story qualifies as Casual.

 

Why does the label matter between hardcore and casual? Just call me zeme nice collection starman, 5000 silver ingots for me personally

 

You also significantly narrowed the issue to make your point.

10 mins once a day vs 100 minutes in 10 days. Doesn't matter... its still the same amount of time. The point here is the time. Would I only plant one seed a day for 120 spots or 120 spots at the same time? Which is generally more efficient use of time?


When you make wolf suprise, do you:

Make 1 thing at a time:

1 x pie dough
1 x sack of flour
1 x butter
1 x jar of cooking oil
1 x Sack of Wheat grain
3 x wolf meat
1 x Obsidian wolf meat

To get 1 wolf surprise

Or do you make 100 at a time:
100 x pie dough
100 x sacks of flower
100 x butter
100 x jar of cooking oil
100 x sacks of wheat grain
300 x wolf meats
100 x Obsidian meats

To get 100 wolf surprises.



I know which one Henry Ford invented.

 

@2112Starman

Part of @Rufus D`Asperdi 's point may also be that a casual player isn't going to plant 120 spots. Just like Rufus, I'm not arguing against any new refining skills or things people are talking about to make the process easier, but a lot of players seem to create a lot of work for themselves and then blame the system.

On the other hand, I think crafting requirements are too high, and that's the other side of the issue. I kind of wish the devs would focus on finding ways to make crafting requirements easier only players first, before they addressed issues of players wanting to do crafting/harvesting in large amounts.

(And guess what, making bulk amounts easier will have the end result of dropping prices and making earning gold even harder).

 

Actually we both agree to that in this thread. A casual right now cant do that stuff (which is actually my point). These new changes the devs are putting in will allow casuals to do so now which again, is a GREAT thing and will be a "job well done" to the dev's.

However, you and I disagree that the players *CAN* (and have very loudly) blame the system and the devs are fixing it now!

For example, Technically they have already fixed half of agriculture for a casual to farm 120 plots and the water is the next fix.

In base this is true for anyone, I would bet even hard core players will be happy to not have to pull 240 buckets of water 1 by 1 right?

 

@2112Starman

I'm still not sure why making it easy for a casual player to do 120 plants is more of a priority than just finding a way to bring crafting reqs down so he doesn't feel he needs to do that much in the begin with Achieves the same thing, but with less inflation !

 

I agree with you 100%. In my opinion, they're going to have to gut the entire thing when they actually add a *real* crafting system that is more than watching progress bars and praying to raptor RNGesus. So with that in mind, adding some placeholder skills that do help alleviate the current problem that can be tweaked later is probably more appealing to them.

There's really a long way to go with crafting. I really hope there's a mini-game that becomes associated with it so that my exceptional crafts aren't merely denoted by the system's roll of the dice, but by my own skill/choices.

 

no argument there, I even posted great examples of how this could be done in the thread.

 

Oh, sorry for the misc information, but I'm so eager to see the new skills, I just lost it...

I'm so hoping that you move all the 2nd dary resources out of the gather aspect, to the refining aspect of crafting... I think it would make refining oh so much more important. if they were skill base...

BTW, thank for answering all my questions for all the telethons...

 

Dude, they always "listen" to us, whether they respond directly or not is a different matter, but they "always" listen, make notes, discuss amongst themselves all the community feedback...

I'm sorry, but there is NO design that would cure this imbalance between "Casual & Hardcore" play styles... And Please @2112Starman and all others, let's NOT "argue" this point, the thread WILL be locked as it should be... So let's discuss the new skills and how they may or may not be designed, that will give the Devs 3 0r 4 releases to discuss amongst themselves IF they wish to incorporate any ideas we come up with now...

The water gathering I added as an idea, I've asked for it in the past, and they answered me on the Dev Hangout "as a consideration" to the idea, I accept that and feel I was heard... Now is the time to push it forwards (not that the Devs haven't already included it)... The idea of "faster" farming is more of an idea to have "plant yields" tied to skill, faster watering has already been incorporated, so that was cool... The drawback to "rain" watering is that, in a downpour, new seedlings are generally washed away, while established plants are not.... Which brings up another idea, why rip out an apple tree, when you can harvest it again? or add fertilizer to increase yields... Fertilizer is already in the gump, but not available (that I'm aware of)...

Then the idea of getting "granite" from refining (instead of gathering) is something I've broached before, I want granite removed from ore nodes... If it's moved to refining then maybe a "Rock Hammer" is used to chisel out the granite, taking 4 ores and chisling 2 granite out leaving 2 pure ore for continued refinement... This could be a separate skill and not require a crafting table, just a rock hammer used on raw ores, even gold & silver ores could yield granite (which they don't now)...

Just a couple of ideas...

 

@SmokerKGB The only thing I would have a hard time with is the "making " of granite. Doesn't feel right. I accept the Dev's reasoning behind how they deliver it.