Diseases as replacement of decay

I would like to share an idea. Basically decay would remove and instead we would get a “diseases system”.
On dying there is a small chance that you have a disease after the "recreation" of your body.
(All numbers are just examples and will have to be adjusted and I just chose them to explain the mechanic!)

There would be e.g. 5 “stages” of physical diseases you can get by dying. Each stage has e.g. a 10% reduction as effect. Stages could be e.g.:

bruised -> stubbed -> broken -> stunted -> disembodied
or simply just number for the stages

And depending of the effected body part you get some debuffs. E.g.:

Arm = reduced strength and physical damage
Leg = reduced dexterity and chance to hit
Head = reduced intelligence and increased fizzle chance
Body = reduced health/focus and resistances

So to say a bruised arm would result in a 10% reduction of your strength and -10% physical damage.
A broken leg would result in 30% reduced dexterity and 30% lesser chance to hit.

Basically on dying there is running a calculation about your skills. E.g. each skill point will raise the chance of getting a disease by 0.05%. (This would mean each GM skill would raise the chance by e.g. 5%.)
But also the type of resurrection could be valued in the calculation. E.g.

Resurrection by leaving the scene = +25% to have a disease
Resurrection by an ankh = +0% to have a disease
Resurrection by an avatar = -25% chance to have a disease


What kind of disease you get maybe depends on e.g. the type of damage that killed yor avatar.

Magical damage = 66% to damage your head, 15% to damage your body, 11% to damage your arm and 8% to damage your leg

Physical damage = 50% to damage your body, 23% to damage your arm, 18% to damage your leg, 9% to damage your head


The stage of the disease could be based on the level of the enemy…

Enemy level below avatar level = stage 1
Enemy level around avatar level = 25% stage 1, 55% stage 2, 20% stage 3
Enemy level above avatar level = 35% stage 2, 50% stage 3, 15% stage 4

..or reverse if an avatar should just fight equally or stronger enemies...

Enemy level above avatar level = stage 1
Enemy level around avatar level = 25% stage 1, 55% stage 2, 20% stage 3
Enemy level below avatar level = 35% stage 2, 50% stage 3, 15% stage 4

…or the type of enemy…

normal enemy = 100% stage 1
“special” enemy = 85% stage 1, 15% stage 2
“epic” enemy = 55% stage 1, 45% stage 2
“boss” enemy = 25% stage 1, 60% stage 2, 15% stage 3

…or if it was a critical hit that killed the avatar…

Not a critical death blow = 75% stage 1, 25% stage 2
Critical death blow = 40% stage 1, 60% stage 2

…or the number of “overhang” damage (more damage than needed to kill your avatar)

Overhang damage below 20 = 80% stage 1, 20% stage 2
Overhang damage between 20 and 35 = 60% stage 1, 37% stage 2, 3% stage 3
Overhang damage above 35 = 25% stage 1, 65% stage 2, 10% stage 3

The disease stages would add up. If you have already a stage 1 leg and get an additional stage 1 leg disease it will be a stage 2 leg.


And how to cure a disease? Well for different stages there could be different possibilities to heal.

Stage 1 simply disappears after some time (e.g. 10 minutes) and maybe faster if you use a special (maybe crafted) medicine.

Stage 2 simply disappear after some time (e.g. 15 minutes) and maybe faster if you use a special (maybe crafted) medicine.

Stage 3 needs treatment by a doctor to be cured who you maybe can find in some NPC towns. Just if the disease is treated for 1000 gold by the doctor a timer starts (E.g. 20 minutes) to let this disease disappear. Additionally there might be instant cure possibility for 1 coto but you may lose 0 to 1 random skill point.

Stage 4 needs a doctor. Just if the disease is treated for e.g. 1 coto by the doctor a timer starts (E.g. 30 minutes) to let this disease disappear but you might lose 0 to 1 random skill. By using instant cure for 2 coto you will lose 0 to 2 random skill point.

Stage 5 needs a doctor. Just if the disease is treated for e.g. 2 coto by the doctor a timer starts (E.g. 40 minutes) to let this disease disappear but you might lose 0 to 2 random skill. By using instant cure for 3 coto you will lose 0 to 4 random skill point.


In this example each death with 20 GM or a comparable number of dispensed skill points would normally result in a assured disease on death but normally even this wouldn’t mean you are losing a skill as stage 1 & 2 are free from this and you just have to wait some time to be back in top condition but you can still continue to explore the world (but maybe a little bit more cautinous). Just if you would die multiple times in a row you might reach the point of a threatful disease.
The higher stages on the other hand would add some consequence and risk to the end game contented as these stages might be even instant result of dying in specific situations. (e.g. fighting a dragon)

In a later iteration of this mechanic there could be also visible indicator at your avatars body for these diseases or additional diseases you can get by not taking care of wounds, attacks of specific enemies, visiting a specific area,… and not just by dying. Like hallucinations of dead (from time to time chased by a ghost), chicken speech (your avatar creates chicken sounds), …

Thanks for reading and what do you think?
(Oh and just to say it again, all numbers are just examples! )

 

I like it , but not instead death decay , but as a chance of injuries in every fight.
The harder the Mob you fight the higher the chance to become injured.
And no CotO Option imho.

 

I like the idea of stat decay instead of xp decay as a penalty for dying. It makes a lot of sense since you shouldn't be at full strength immediately after resurrection.

 

Well with the instant heal you might be faster ready but also your chances to lose a skill point would be higher…so to say as equalizer and I thought Coto might be a good choice but I wouldn’t have a problem if they would be replaced with some thousand gold pieces. It should just be more expensive the deeper the wound is.
And even if the chance of injuries in every fight (e.g. by each critical hit you receive) sounds interesting I fear not many would like that.

 

Yes would lessen your efficenncy and therefor unpopular

I think they need to strictly separate real money stuff from gamemechanics , also for repairing stuff.
Else it becomes easy this pay to win flavor imo.

 

Well I'm a big fan of disease and injury debuffs BUT, I'm not seeing how this addresses replacing XP decay as a skill soft cap which is the whole purpose of XP decay in the first place.

 

Yea, my view is for a death penalty the best thing would be injuries that you get when you die (and perhaps sometimes during a fight). But like Bowen said, the purpose of decay isn't a death penalty, its a way to create a soft cap on skill gain. They just made it apply after death as a way for it to make more sense to players. So, really, to get rid of decay, the devs would have to decide to do the soft cap in a different way. Its not just a matter of replacing one penalty with another one.

 

It depends on the way how stages of diseases are chosen. I described 5 possible ways but I’m sure there are more or combinations possible.
E.g. using the damage that killed your avatar. You have 50 HP left and the enemy kills you with a 114 damage strike. You received 64 more damage than was needed to kill you and this might result in a deep wound that may cost a random skill point for curing. Avatars in low level scenes will mostly not suffer this kind of overhang damage while in 5-skull scenes this might be more regular.
Or the type of enemy that killed you is influencing diseases. Epic or boss monster are most like more in end content scenes than in starter regions. If these types of monster cause heavy wounds by killing your avatar it is more likely that you have during cure a random skill loss.

It wouldn’t mean that you always lose a skill on dying but e.g. the more difficult the enemy the more likely it would be to reach the point of having a serious disease and you either live with consequences or you cure your avatar and may lose a random skill. I would guess the loss of exp with decay is more "regular" but the loss of skill points during disease cures might be (at least for hight skills) more "expensive".

 

Ok I can see an argument to be made for skill loss based on the idea of loss of physical ability.. I'm not sure how I feel about that approach but it could be workable. I think my primary concern would be that the end result might feel too much like decay on death.

Personally, I think you should have a chance of injury on receiving any critical would.. where.. if skill loss is possible.. it may occur if not properly treated in time. The idea being perhaps an injury didn't heal properly. Regaining the skill lost would essentially be part of 'recovery'.

 

It's a workable concept. The loss of skills for instant recovery is probably not worth implementing though. Nobody would ever use it if they lost skills as a result unless the duration of the debuff is >1 hour as, for me at least, if I lost particular skill points the recoup of that single skill point is as bad as some of the highest exp player's current decay values (@120 it takes minimum of ~700k exp for that one point, my current decay is otherwise like 40k lol...)

 

@OP I won't say this doesn't sound interesting but,do you have any idea what a coding nightmare this would be?

 

I thought about something similar too but I fear this would be too much and too complex (or too realistic ).
I mean I'm not able to treat e.g. a broken arm properly neither my own nor the one of someone else. So every wound aside of some scratches would need a visit in the next town and you might be injured after each defeated enemy...I would say such a mechanic is just acceptable for a small group of gamers.

Actually I do not think it is that much work. (relatively )
1.) Creating database values for each avatar. (body parts, timer)
2.) Adding modifiers to the stats and influenced values like...
(previous formula for intelligence) * (1- (disease_head.value/10)) //disease_head.value = 1...5
...but I think with the formula in front the devs would find a more efficient way.
3.) Creating the disease formula on dying. (probably the most complex issue)
4.) Creating an NPC doctor script that is offering a service based on the avatars disease values. (if avatar.leg = stage 5 then show offer to heal the disease,...)
5.) Creating visible indicators like icons, ...

 

How would it be any different than any other debuff in the game? The mechanic is there. Really at that point they could include some kind of new char animation (disease cloud or something) but other than that, no it would not at all be a coding nightmare.

I love this idea!

 

Good point. Perhaps a much smaller XP decay plus debuff?

 

For a functioning soft cap I really prefer increased XP requirements for skill gains beyond about 1,500 - 2,000 skill points or so.. but I'm a long time fan of injuries which could be done pretty easily with debuffs.. as could diseases.. both @redfish and I have any number of related posts on both subjects over the last few years. If I wasn't at work I'd shamelessly plug a few.

 

Interesting idea. Everything except for the skill point loss if it's not temporary also.

Aside from that, I think I still prefer what Chris and Starr mentioned in the last telethon, keeping decay as it is but possibly also allowing players to hard cap instead as an alternative to dealing with decay.

 

The problem I think is that the hardcore players for whom skill decay is most needed.. will simply overcome that decay. When they can GM several skills in a day, decay is somewhat moot.

 

It just struck me that recovering(faster) from this alternative form of decay is one good reason to have beds.

 

Could be a good addition. The usage of special items like beds could be a usable help for curing a disease but if such a mechanic would be used there must be a way for everyone to benefit from this help. I do not think everyone should be able to sleep in a strangers bed and get the cure bonus but maybe there could be some kind of NPC hospital for the ones without a lot with beds that can be used by everyone (if there isn't someone already laying inside ) and a similar possibility to offer this opportunity by a lot owner as I'm quite sure there would be some willing to offer a sickbed to avatars in need.

 

A NPC hospital would be a great idea. I remember this MUD where there was a healing grove with beds and NPC healers casting healing spells at regular intervals. It was a favorite place and usually crowded