Elf/Human Affinity Debate

I've seen people express concerns that a racial affinity will destroy a classless system and PvP balance.

Every choice you make in game has a consequence and an opportunity cost.

• If you wear heavy armor instead of light armor, it has an opportunity cost.
• If you use a polearm rather than a blade, it has an opportunity cost.
• If you stack your deck one way over another, it has an opportunity cost.
• If you focus on stealth over magic, it has an opportunity cost.

All of the choices open up great tactical debates and more interesting combat. I for one, welcome these character differences. I don't want to see everyone copying the same rote build because it is ideal. I want someone to have different abilities than I do.

 

Agreed. Choices matter. Exactly why the race bonus thing is terrible because you're stuck with some arbitrary thing at creation, rather than making a tactical choice. We don't want hardwired rock/paper/scissors. We want those as choices available to us, so we can think our was through situations.

As I said before, I'm OK with starter bonus to race if they can be easily overcome so they don't matter in the long run.

 

I don't think the issue is that it is an opportunity cost. The issue is that two players, who make the same choices, do not have the same opportunities because one wants to have pointy ears and the other doesn't. Cosmetics should not come with power. Nothing else in this game requires you to look, dress, or act a certain way in order for you to advance your chosen path.

That said, its already been decided so the point is moot. I just hope the human affinities are not the same as what were originally mentioned.

 

Two players choosing two races haven't made the exact same decisions, and that is the point. If it is okay for other decisions to have tactical consequences, why is it so evil for another to do the same?

 

Huh? You're born into your race. Unless this is some arena where you can reset your race every two minutes, you're stuck with it. It's not a tactical choice.

 

I love the idea. You have 3 options to choose from. As a human I'll probably use medium armor but not sun or the crafting affinity. This is an excellent system!
As an elf I'll be luney assassin. Might use a bow, probably an alchemist.

 

As I said, its doesn't matter what my opinions are, the choice has been made. I really hope this game doesn't turn into just another generic fantasy MMO; I pledged for the spiritual successor to Ultima, not UO/WoW.

 

In real life you have no say over your race. In a RPG, you get to make that decision. And in most every RPG in existence, that decision has tactical consequences.

 

The problem I have with racial bonuses that matter in the end game is that players will min/max. If no other race can compete against an elf archer at the higher levels, then nearly all high level archers will be elves. At this point it is no longer a tactical choice, if you want to be a good archer then you will be an elf. It really depends on how they handle the affenities. If this is a small thing that has no real impact on higher levels, then fine. If this means I have to be an elf to be an archer, or a human to be a wizard, or what-have-you, then I'm not very thrilled with this.

 

True, but we have enough tactical choices to make in the game without adding race imbalancing into the mix.

I prefer when people play a race because they choose to and not because it provides tactical advantages.

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The simplest balance is mirrored abilities on two sides or rock/paper/scissors, but that is boring and not remotely tactical. Complexity is harder to balance, but more rewarding when executed well.

 

I completely agree but more often than not I see this as not well balanced even with the best of intentions. Players always seem to find the inconsistencies and exploit them.

I would rather play knowing that those who choose to play a different race did so because it is what they wanted and not because it gave them a minimal advantage in an area they preferred.

Like this elves will be played as elves, human as human and whatever else comes along in their own fashion. Our gifts in the game will be determined by the paths we follow and what we practice and not the race we choose to start with.

In any case, there is no absolute argument against adding skills for different races, no right or wrong, this is just a personal preference.

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Can someone tell me what all this is referring to? Are they opening up playable races now? Where is this info?

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...wned-towns-stretch-goal-store-megapost.11465/

They will add a new thing called STRETCH GOAL STORE:
If people buys items in the elf category (Elven Bow, Elven Archer Armour) that money will go towards the Stretch goal to add a Elf race
So you vote with your money if you want certain stretch goals added

if people buy elf items for $300000 they will hire? someone that works on making a elf race

 

I don't mind racial affinities, but I think humans should get to choose their affinities (maybe only get one or two instead of three).

I'm more concerned with how this impacts the story. What happened to: "You're playing you"? It would require a second set of dialogue for most npc's who refer to you as outlander. How can an elf be an Avatar? Especially one that fits the darn prophecy?

 

This is definitely an issue. The Blade of the Avatar novel portrays elves as 'monsters' created by the Obsidian wizards. Or are they just native elves that were brainwashed into serving the Obsidian Empire?

 

Unless Starr has announced it, this conversation belongs in Dev+

That said.. other races are NOT "decided" yet.

 

Err nm I see that he did announce it in public. My bad.

 

This was publicly announced today.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...wned-towns-stretch-goal-store-megapost.11465/

Elves as a stretch goal hasn't been unlocked, but the proposal does list affinities.

 

"SotA-Pop, Do I have an Affinity for the Challenge?"

I want bigotry as well a jealousy to be a true reflection into our world... Please read further...
(I'll even keep this post in regular text to be very clear on this subject)

Just because something has 2 legs, 2 arms and walks upright, dose not make it human, nor superhuman, yet they can have abilities in some ways that surpass our own. "Have you ever tried to climb a tree as fast as a monkey?"
Man has proven himself to be the most dominant creature for as long as he has ever been. All his talents have been very adaptive to surpass every other creature. "Though the monkey can climb a tree faster than we can, he cannot overcome many more complex obstacles when he dose encounter them while climbing". Man can scale walls, trees and even adapt himself to a "virtual world, stepping into a different skin as the Drone is in the above picture. Yet the drone can't overcome it's weaknesses when it comes to deftly opening a simple bottle of soda-pop.

Could we see a world of balance through a weight of talents? Possibly, but with much confusion, debate and them what do we have? We have 2 equal chrs and if they are equal, then what's the challenge which equals into added fun into our game?

If humans do everything better, then it's a more difficult challenge, yet if the other "classes of creatures we can play" could take a hit in almost every way in every skill, "Yet one skill could be enhanced over a human's ability", then that may provide a challenging chr to be stepping into for a more challenging game within a game. "The monkey can beat you up a tree!"

Could the Elf have an easier time taming animals?
Could a Dwarf take a more of a hit and still be standing?
Could a "anything" have one simple thing that is of Magic/Melee Combat/Crafting/Taming ability beyond a human, yet be far less able to do all and thus Man's dominance of reality remain?
Do we remember how the "Mage Tamer" took over UO as the dominant solo player and do we want that here? Couldn't we offset such a thing by separating the top tamers ability from the top mage's ability and thus help our game be different?

Man should be the dominant creature and our new creatures could become our deeper and more challenging game.
~Time Lord~