"Elves as a playable race", how does it fit in New Britannia lore?

It disturbs me how many refer to the race of Elves as "cookie cutter", "typical cliche fantasy", "generic" and other things of the like when they're probably uninformed or even more likely under-informed @Karrolanth and others here. I would guess that most peoples experience with Elves comes from Lord of the Rings and all they can think of is Legolas and maybe another one or two. No doubt their experience with Elves is limited and only based on their portrayal in mainstream media. Elves have a deep and rich history in fantasy lore that stems from before the very early days of Dungeons & Dragons and The Forgotten Realms.

For example, Cormanthor was once a legendary Elven city that went through many historical changes, resulting in a magically sealed and newly spirited Cormanthor renamed Myth Drannor. Even Myth Drannor was ultimately breached and fell into ruin: Myth Drannor. The Elves have a sister race of dark elves that have for years been their adversary, evolving and dwelling in a place called the Underdark chronicled by a fantasy author by the name of R.A. Salvatore and many others. From time to time the Elves have been attacked by the Drow that visit the surface, but they know better than to enter the Underdark to return the favor! Without going into too much detail, those are just a couple examples of Elven lore that don't include or have anything to do with Lord of the Rings!

I have read the books and played the games for many years. For those of you who think Elves are "typical cliche" and "generic", do a little research on your fantasy lore and find that Elves are amongst the most history rich and interesting races to ever grace the genre Be informed, not ignorant and uninformed.

 

Haha this is a very interesting Statement.. I hope Elves have interesting corps trophies.
Let me know when the guild is created @Licemeat.

 

All of this might be true, it doesn't change the fact that we're going to get the same old rehashed race again, while Ultima has dozens of original races. How big of a deal would it be to not call them elves and not make them look like elves always seem to look.
I would expect a writer like Hickman to come up with something original, but no...

 

So your argument of it not being cliché is to list how old it is and in how many different fantasy books it was used?
btw Lord of the Rings is like 20 years older than D&D. Written in the 30s, published in the 50s. D&D is from the 70s.
I've read both LotR and Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms etc. and played D&D books. While D&D is 'the' go to great fantasy universe, it's pretty much a copy of inspired by LotR.

 

dp_dropout Said;

Doppelganger said: ↑

It disturbs me how many refer to the race of Elves as "cookie cutter", "typical cliche fantasy" and other things of the like when they're probably uninformed or even more likely under-informed. I would guess that most peoples experience with Elves comes from Lord of the Rings and all they can think of is Legolas and maybe another one or two. Elves have a deep and rich history in fantasy lore that stems from the very early days of Dungeons & Dragons and The Forgotten Realms.

For example, Cormanthor was once a grand city populated by this race that went through many historical changes, resulting in a magically sealed and newly spirited Cormanthor called Myth Drannor. Even Myth Drannor was ultimately breached and fell into ruin: Myth Drannor. The Elves have a sister race of dark elves that have for years been their adversary, evolving and dwelling in a place called the Underdark chronicled by a fantasy author by the name of R.A. Salvatore and many others. From time to time the Elves have been attacked by the Drow that visit the surface, but they know better than to enter the Underdark to return the favor! Without going into too much detail, those are just a couple examples of Elven lore that don't include or have anything to do with the overplayed Legolas!

I have read the books and played the games for many years. For those of you who think Elves are "typical cliche", do a little research on your fantasy lore and find that Elves are amongst the most history rich and interesting races to ever grace the genre Be informed, not ignorant and uninformed. ​

All of this might be true, it doesn't change the fact that we're going to get the same old rehashed race again, while Ultima has dozens of original races. How big of a deal would it be to not call them elves and not make them look like elves always seem to look.
I would expect a writer like Hickman to come up with something original, but no...
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~TL~
dp_dropout, I haven't heard a race come out from you through suggestion that anyone would place money on or support...
Kudos Not Indeed, Not at All
Try harder, make some Novels and Above All, Sell Some Novels... then you may find the race and support for that "race that you desire" !
~Time Lord~
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Lord Lorimus Said;

licemeat said:

Elves as a playable race...that's about as "cookie cutter" as it gets. I hope this goal fails, but if it makes it, let it be known that if I see anyone playing an elf in a PVP zone, I'm going for an ear trophy.​

Haha this is a very interesting Statement.. I hope Elves have interesting corps trophies.
Let me know when the guild is created @Licemeat.
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~TL~ "This is a Very Healthy Attitude" !!

We need race strife within our game as it is within the Ultima game's heritage through the strife of the Gargoyles.
Kudos Lord Lorimus! Kudos Indeed!
~Time Lord~

 

Dark Elves that lived in Underdark and worship Lloth - goddess of Chaos, have a rich hierarchy, and history as well! (not all dark elves are bad If you read any RA Salvatore "Dark elf Trilogy" Drizzt is awesome!)

 

lol, I know LOTR is older thank you. Elves were more greatly defined in the early days of D&D and fantasy writing I meant. Your definition of cliche may be incomplete "A cliché or cliche is an expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has become overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect". The race with such a rich and detailed history in fantasy is not at fault for uninformed and poor fantasy writers and game developers who drop them into their work merely for their popularity or effect.

 

This is the key point of their posts. While the Elf in itself has DEEP roots in germanic folklore and the DnD literature has certainly given them greater fictional identity in modern times, the problem of cliche still stands. I think what some people here mean by cliche is true - that a lot of games have simply plonked in elves out of popularity and ease of recognition. That is their current reaction to this race being introduced, but is also a direct result of a lack of information about the true nature of SotA elves that Portalarium hasn't disclosed yet.

Has RG and Tracy fallen victim to the usual tropes?, or are they simply calling upon the original ancient folklore as a reference point and giving them additional layers of identity through the lens of New Britannia and the Cataclysm?

 

First of all, I don't need nor want other races but if they desperately want to implement one, there are plenty of races in Ultima lore to get inspiration from. Do I need to list some? Lizardmen, Ophidians, Terathans, Ratmen, Emps, Gargoyles etc.
And second this oh so popular elvish race has so far made a whopping 1% of it's funding goal. People really seem to want it in game!

 

I think this is mostly a direct result of the goal being unattainable. People look at it and give up before they even try (myself included). Its a ridiculous number set at a lofty (over quarter of a million dollars) $300k. I almost wonder if Portalarium set this number so high unpurpose so they could appease both the people who wanted Elves with a "oh well, we tried!" and the people who don't really want them because the goal can't be reached.

 

dp_dropout Said;

First of all, I don't need nor want other races but if they desperately want to implement one, there are plenty of races in Ultima lore to get inspiration from. Do I need to list some? Lizardmen, Ophidians, Terathans, Ratmen, Emps, Gargoyles etc.
And second this oh so popular elvish race has so far made a whopping 1% of it's funding goal. People really seem to want it in game!
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~TL~
I am actually one to agree with you to a point, but I can't see raising any blockade on the elf idea and there are leading reasons to why they are needed. yet, we are talking about a very long way into the future as we see the funding for them. but we are currently in a pledge upgrade drive, so the elves may see a little more after we all save our nickel and dimes for gaining or 10% bonus for the next level of pledge commitment. I myself will probably give a full pledge to the elves after this pledge drive just to support Portalarium's commitment to their community.
I don't think anyone would be as wild about playing Lizardmen, Ophidians, Terathans, Ratmen, Emps or Gargoyles as much as they are elves, but you could be right, 'we don't know"...
Maybe you should post a poll on those ideas or something
~Time Lord~

 

I can't argue with that, and I think it's same for all their stretch goals.
My gf and I are contemplating upping our pledges to include housing with a garden (which to us is already a disgusting amount of money) so there is no money going anywhere else.

 

One of the things I see happening in this thread is arguments between people who have read the Hickman novel and people who haven't (including myself).
Maybe I'm wrong in arguing against the elves, I have no idea since the book isn't part of my pledge. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong when they are actually really well incorporated into the storyline, but still... why elves again... argh.

 

dp_dropout Said;

One of the things I see happening in this thread is arguments between people who have read the Hickman novel and people who haven't (including myself).
Maybe I'm wrong in arguing against the elves, I have no idea since the book isn't part of my pledge. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong when they are actually really well incorporated into the storyline, but still... why elves again... argh.
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OMG! Don't go, don't give up! or this thread will die without you!
We need more hammers around here
~Time Lord~

 

Let me just clarify that 'elves' in my norse culture isn't 'a race'..it's an overall term of many different types of "lesser godly" beings including faeries etc.. which would in other cultures be known as nature spirits, devas etc.

The only similarities with D&D is that some of them were considered light and some dark.

 

I wish we could get gargoyles. Stupid EA! Grrr. Still, their look is generic enough that maybe they could be included under a different name. Perhaps it's been long enough in Brittanian history, with all of the cataclysmic events to have completely changed their identity. Maybe a small community had to re-build the race, with so little of their original history left to them that they are distinct enough to use in SotA...

One can wish.

 

Captain Jack agrees! Their ships at sea are full of great treasures ripe for the plundering. Captain Jack will plunder without regard for human life those ships. Becasue of course they aren't human!

 

It wont be an easy task Licemeat if i do choose an elf! But I love the challenge!

 

Say what? The Blaquerogue I know would never joke about such a thing! Elves, just say No.

 

I don't have a problem with elves in the game once they've already gone this route where they're presuming chaos magic was used to create any number of new races.

The name "elf" versus "Vertas" or something else isn't really an issue either, in that even though we have certain popular depictions of elves, in the English language its actually become somewhat of a generic term. Just like we have the term "impish", we have the term "elfin." The Vertas people are elfin, thus are elves. In the wider culture, we have Tolkeinesque elves, but also Santa's helpers, and the elves in Spenser's Faerie Queene. "Elf" means many things, and the fact that it's been associated with the D&D race shouldn't stop it from being used as a name the game.

The idea of player elves is still a bit unappealing to me; its a different issue.