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Explanation and update on balancing efforts for R74 and Q1

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Chris, Jan 23, 2020.

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  1. Tailz

    Tailz Avatar

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    Correct.
     
  2. Tailz

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    Not everyone is on the same power level nor will they ever be, and why not add a pvp skill tree so that we can have some meaningful pvp?
     
  3. Brass Knuckles

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    id love to see pvp move into crafting as well, say for example anything crafted on bloodbay you have the ability to get resilience and pvp power rolls. You might need to drop all the low end rolls instead but there is great MISSED opportunity here to do a solid for pvp players.



    @Chris
     
  4. Boris Mondragon

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    I beg to differ on that one brother. There has been PVP worth mentioning to the point of @Chris streaming “Dragomir 2” battle. I guess you also missed Dragomir 1, Battle of New Heaven and Luna City. If you did then my condolences on missing out.

    I take that one personally due to the effort put forth
    and time invested in this project which is still alive. Yes this large scale high profile PvP was my creation along with @CatherineRose, @Antrax Artek and @Spinok for their support. I also credit @Mangar.

    I have taken a hiatus from being involved in this type of event and the Black Sails stories that accompanied it mainly due to the lack of raid parties yet rest assured I will return to help it become even greater in the future.

    R/Boris/El Pirata/Black Sails Forever
     
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  5. CatherineRose

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    Thank you @Chris for whether in game life or in real life the object is to do the best each day with what we know today. We try to improve and change and grow. We want to move in the right direction . We are not perfect but we can listen , learn, change and teach as we go. Thank you for striving to do just that!
     
  6. Ancev

    Ancev Bug Hunter

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    I posted part of this in the thread Combat "balance pass"

    "I'd rather have PvP and PvE [damage] separated entirely.. let PvE go as crazy as you want so the time investment is there.. but for PvP I'd like to see it be a capped use-based system without XP. Similar to Ultima Online.
    Relative PvP skills would be capped to 100 and you could set 10 skills to be Prestige skills which would allow you raise them to 120. You'd manage the PvP skills in a PvP tab in the Skills window. The goal would be balancing the system to reduce the amount of 1 hit kills in the game. No more 2k damage to players in PvP.

    Skill gain from lightning, searing ray, fire arrow, fireball, detect hidden, etc would only be triggered in the PvP tab by using them against other Avatars."

    Do PvPers in this game care about player combat being more available, mainstream and balanced for a large audience of players? Or do they care about running around and killing players in one hit? Or grinding grinding grinding and being able to say "4 billion xp really isn't a big deal" cuz diminishing returns.

    In UO I didn't have to care about logging in and going to a certain place to get the absolute maximum amount of XP whenever I log in. I felt comfortable gaining skills anywhere in the game. In SOTA I must grind mobs in certain high level areas, every time I login if I want to stay in the rat race. These changes in the next patch and also in 2020 look promising. I am looking forward to seeing the game grow and seeing more depth added to existing game mechanics and systems. And better loot.

    People can make reference to Opalis Ruins being capped and no one goes there, but the loot has been BAD on average mobs. In UO and Shadowbane I farmed dumb mobs for good loot, and it was satisfying. I could also get loot from PvP because it was inventory looting - and I didn't have to be the player that killed said player. I don't want to be forced to kill bosses or sit on a control point to get good loot. I want there to be more opportunities for a chance at good loot, all over the zones throughout the game if I spend some time farming that area.

    Perhaps we could introduce something similar to UO with power scrolls/skill gain scrolls. It would make grinding mobs more interesting. When you apply the scrolls you gain skill and cap their usage based on a player's adventure level.

    I still support inventory looting in PvP (certain consumable items like reagents, crafting resources, junk weapons, potions, artifacts, etc) even if it is session based. (stuff that you acquire upon entering a zone) and I support gaining XP from killing other players in PvP. But I want PvP combat to be balanced, and I believe it would be easier if PvP skills and damage were separated from PvE.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  7. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Yes you have a strong opinion. Non the less, it's just that. An opinion.
     
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  8. Cordelayne

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  9. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Captain, that are organised events. It's nice they are there and it's nice people are attending.
    And I salute the people organising them. Thank you for your efforts, really.
    But that isn't really exactly what I am talking about.
    Don't get me wrong, I like the 'creat your own adventure' idea behind this kind of stuff.
    But we are completely lacking a real framework for the PvP stuff. This Events catch just a fraction of possible pvpers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  10. Cora Cuz'avich

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    I think that is only something that would exist in "hard mode" scenes. In normal play, it would work as it does now.
     
  11. Cora Cuz'avich

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    That's a little disingenuous. My feeling is that most of us that have left/taken a break over nerfs aren't having their favorite OP thing nerfed, they're having the thing(s) that allows them to barely do anything outside of UT get nerfed.

    For every AL120 player that solos the spider queen because of a build, there's ten AL105 players that are barely beating Torc or the easier level of Tartarus with that build. You make things a little tougher for that AL120 guy, and the AL105s now have two less things they can do in a game with not a lot to do at that level. Maybe the spider queen needs to be harder instead of making everything harder by hitting skills?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  12. Restless

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    Have you tested these changes yourself? I am beyond sure I have more genuine playtime than you and I can tell you this will just make melee super OP instead of the OP it is now.
     
  13. Cordelayne

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    Ah, you're right, I see that now. Will edit my post. Thanks!
     
  14. Spungwa

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    Why would you single out these AOEs only.
    If it is because they are the most used, you are playing chess only looking one move into the future.....

    Consider what we will do if these changes are made, other AOEs will replace them, if this moves them below the others.

    I would also say, don't balance on reagent cost. Gold cost is always the worst thing to try to balance on. It only really hits low level players, high level players can get the gold easy enough and it has no effect on their gameplay at all.


    Regards
    Spung
     
  15. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    shooting myself in the foot here, but add earthquake.
     
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  16. Spungwa

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    With things like this, if the problem is the high end damage is too high, but the overall DPS is balanced, consider upping the low end when nerfing the high end. So the DPS is not nerfed, just to problem of huge single hits one shotting is fixed, Note polearm probably has the same problem as aim shot, but with the disadvantage of having to close the gap to do it.

    PS This is not me being against these changes, i think they are a good thing.
    It is just consider the affect these changes make and ensure they fix the problem, not just move it to a different skill/build/deck. I know not always possible to know, but at least have a think and ask players how they would change due to these changes and then check if after they make these changes to their deck/build it persists the same problems. Try not to "throw the baby out with the bath water", this is the example of nerfing high end damage of aimed shoot, don't fix the high end damage problem and make it useless by nerfing the DPS to the point i may as well continue to auto attack rather than use the skill.


    Regards
    Spung
     
  17. Brass Knuckles

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    your correct all aoes need to be balanced not just 1-2. like I said about in ut the top two are banish and multi shot currently, however in tarturus it was RoF by far then MS and Banish. If ur gonna fix aoes fix them all. I expect Corpse explosion will take the lead if people start doing the other cp stuff again. CE is amazing as long as ur not killing undead. Ut and tar has killed the use for it but left unchecked it would be the next goto.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  18. Lesni

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    I want this game to succeed more than most here and I hate to be critical...
    But, changing things without testing is not a great way to keep players happy.

    On QA, I tried the Fire Ring with an Alt spec'd in Fire.
    YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING
    It uses twice the regents for less than 1/2 the duration. that means it uses 400% more regents, not 150% more.


    @Chris . . . TRY THINGS YOURSELF !!!

    Changes like this implemented WITHOUT proper testing sucks.

    It is extremely frustrating to spend weeks, months and in my case, years creating a skill tree that works for me. These changes make my avatar ineffective and most of all
    NOT FUN.

    I killed Torc Dawl yesterday I had no issues killing him.
    Today, on QA, he killed me in less than a minute.

    I have very little time to 're-learn' ways to make my avatar effective again.
    I can only play a few hours a week.
    Drastic changes like this cause players to spend more time doing fun things in other places because they can't WIN in SOTA. The goal in SOTA should be to have fun, NOT to make everyone equally powerful.

    Again, my plea . . .

    Put the excel formulas away and PLAY THE GAME.

    **********
    Not my link testing Ring of Fire:
    Ring of Fire Changes
    And a chart of Ring of Fire differences from that link:
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Cora Cuz'avich

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  20. Aldo

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    @Chris When dealing with combat focus regen, please remember an oft overlooked item. This is the fact that a solo player that goes non-combat to regen focus has to deal with the fact that the mob they are fighting immediately regens all its health. This means in a long battle, the solo player has no option but to remain in combat. When playing in group, this is not an issue. A person in the group can regen out of combat and rejoin the fray. Remember...to use potions without leaving combat, the potions must be on the bars and activated from there. The cooldown on them becomes critical. Perhaps multiple slots of the same potion could be used if cooldown is on the slot only. Then a person could populate their bars with iterations of focus potion, of course losing some flexibility due to losing bar real estate.
     
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