Flagged for PVP should equal triple experience points.

You're saying siege perilous killed UO ? I think you missed a big part... and btw this is RG's idea.

Nobody had to do anything you speak of like playing 24/7 to enjoy Siege... everyone loved siege from the moment they stepped in.

 

I'm kidding, but it shows the level of confusion there is...

Siege was totally separated from multi-player servers and had its own economy, the skill gains were much much lower and yes it took a long time to get to speed with the best, but you could still outwit them and make your own luck and fortune

Or rely on the wonderful community, such a lovely bunch its a shame so few wanted to join shroud

 

There is so much wrong with this I can't even begin to begin... lol

 

Tl;Dr Version: Just read the bold.

Fortunately, no one would be forcing you.

I think you're making stuff up here to fit your narrative. The point of this post is to encourage PvP. There is, so far, nothing you can get in PvP that you can't get in PvE. PvP would just give you a slightly better chance/ease of getting some things (such as resources, and yes, a small buff to experience - 300% is too much but 10%-15% would be really reasonable).

This is an emotional argument, but understandable. It's how economics works: people decide for themselves what is most valuable. The unfortunate thing is that PvP is currently only end-game content currently. I understand that's how you want it to stay, but many others (not just 10%-20% of the player base) want PvP to be integrated into the game seamlessly. To integrate it seamlessly, you have to have more people at all levels without barriers (like you mentioned with your "rules and timers") to arbitrarily separate them. You have to make players make choices. The best games of our current age *forces* players to make choices. Without forcing a choice (which is integral to this game, the biggest example being the virtue system), you might as well go and play WoW where your hardest decision is choosing a faction.

My rebuttal to your argument is that this game already forces you to make choices for how you want to play the game. Why do you begrudge yet another choice, especially one that has no actual baring upon how you play as an independent player?

They do, and often.

Same with those of us who like PvP. I think you're getting really passive aggressive and whiny. So far, most of your post has been about your feelers getting hurt instead of thinking about the overall macrocosm of the game. If you take your feelings out of an objective view of what was being suggested, you'd see there's merit to encouraging PvP through the non-exclusive means being suggested. PvPers see your point that people who strictly PvE don't like being given incentives to PvP, but maybe if you worked with us to develop a mutually acceptable situation we would have a much more inclusive community and a much better game. This isn't the U.S. federal congress - we don't have to shut the game down if we can compromise!

And, as much as I talked about compromise, reasoning objectively, and talking things out, well...this was just too funny not to post. Please take this with a grain of internet trolling salt that's meant in good humor. Your saltiness was tasty. Let's just have a good time, get involved in creating a wonderfully worthwhile game, and laugh when we can.

 

Guess nobody here played Warhammer Online.

I played Warhammer Online from beta, to day 1, to release, to death, had 2 collector editions now worth $0, anyway here's what happened;

Day 1; Everyone is a newb and grinds through the newb quests PvE to get to the higher levels, at level 10 or 20 or whatever they allow you to access approximately 3x XP PvP battle arena.

90% of the population leaves the PvE areas which were beautifully crafted btw, to grind in the battle arenas 24/7.

The 10% are the newbs grinding to get to the minimum level to grind in the battle arenas.

0% of the massively legitimately MMORPG pve enviornments have players, they are all abandoned, desolate tumble weed ghost towns.

I loved the set ups for the PvE battles, they had cannons, catapults, all these medieval massive weapons I can't even spell, hit at areas w/ mobs rushing them to take control of areas. Was great, except for the fact that you needed a group of players to accomplish this, was impossible as 100% of the players were grinding levels for xp in the PvP arenas which awarded massive bonuses to XP.

Boring PvE, everyone quit, game over.

If there's a cheap, fast, quick, easy, lazy way, everyone will do it, 90% of the players will do it, and it destroys all other areas. Which not slowly but quickly destroys the entire game. That's what happened with WAR anyway.

 

Agreed. Which is *another* reason I say we, the players, and the developers should incentivize people to flag PvP everywhere! Down with the PvP ghettos!

 

Siege Perilous is
<-----
That way.

It's not what everybody wants.

 

@Ristra, are you saying that your avatar picture is a portal to Siege Perilous?!

 

The Matrix had it all wrong. It wasn't a red pill, it's a red pepper!

 

Razimus they don't want to listen to logic. All they want to do is whine because they don't have enough victim's. I remember when they opened up Trammel. Frankly it was because the majority of players were sick to death of the pkers/thieves and were already leaving the game. EA had to choose. Give the majority of the players a safe place to live and play or watch the game die. Period. It was a MASS EXODUS of epic proportions from Felucia to Trammel. That was what saved UO. Let them continue to come up with their limp wilted carrots. They are truly a broken record.

 

Well. I think the reasons we don't want 3X XP for PvP are totally different. But as long as we agree on not wanting it. But as far as Trammel & Why everyone quit UO. I didn't quit UO for those reasons at all.

I quit UO in January of 1998 because of a few main reasons;
* 9.99 per month was too much for me, I bought a 3 month subscription code when I picked up my reserved UO at Software Etc. The game already came w/ 1 month, so 4 months in I quit because I was out of game time and $10 big ones was a lot of money for me back then, and my parents didn't want to pitch in for a game they'd seen me play the entire beta, and didn't ever encourage video games for some reason. But I had my fill of the game thanks to the beta and it was already getting old.

I quit UO in 1999 because of a few reasons;
* I don't remember when I re-upped but it must've been later in 1998 into 1999. I thoroughly enjoyed PvP, thoroughly enjoyed getting PKd, thoroughly enjoyed my felucca houses, we called it Britannia back then as felucca didn't have a distinguishable facet name pre-trammel obviously. I had a large tower north of the SOS which may still be standing who knows. I had a house near the brit swamps. I had tons of houses, tons. But let em all IDOC, except for the large tower I gave to a guildmate. I quit because again, monthly fee $9.99 per month was enough to make me able to play for a few months, but needing to quit for many months, not to save up money, just to find other things to do and realize I missed UO enough to shell out another ten bucks.

* On Great Lakes, I was Lord Dr Pepper.

I quit UO in 2001 because I was going off the net and they introduced the 3d bullcrap expansion, I beta tested it and was so offended by it's hideousness that I had to call it quits, also I was going offline.

I believe I did sub for a few months after AOS just to check out customizable housing. Very cool feature. Not cool enough to sub for, I believe it was 11.99 per month by then or some such nonsense.

Never subbed ever again, except when they had 1 free month for vets, caught that at least 2 or 3 times over the years. now it's like 12.99 a month or some garbage. You'd think it'd be free w/ an item store at this point.

I did play some free shards here and there as encouraged by my nephew who never subbed to official UO, only played freeshards. I showed them to him and he possibly still plays to this day. Only to login and refresh houses. Sad story.

----------------------------------------

As for trammel making UO a thriving game. I have made 2 threads about this, maybe 3, and 4 or 5 in other places. And the numbers thoroughly prove that trammel didn't ever go up in terms of stock market trends, it actually wobbled and went nosedive down only after trammel, during felucca the numbers were nothing but upwards. As seen here;

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...-online-published-subscription-numbers.26280/

The reason I don't want PvP to have 3X Xp is for my Warhammer Online statements above which are not related to the trammel vs felucca argument.

 

Thats all fun and games Raz, but your conclusion only says two things :

- The players in most online games behave like sheep and will go for the easy way to become superman cause obviously sheep like to bulk up and become hulk hogan so they can kick some ass ASAP... as such they don't realise what they really want is siege perilous which explains what ristra says about them not entering the red pepper gate.

- Game studios still to this day do not understand what siege perilous is and by making this big mistake they fell into oblivion... Obviously they too made PVP an endgame experience and they forgot to give love to the lower levels who also like to engage in some action.

Now that is so incredibly condescending and generalizingly prohibitive of any sense what so ever. I got pked once in years and years of Siege perilous, and the guy gave me a million gold cause he came to my house and saw I had nothing.

Anyways you can't base a whole derivative theory upon one experience... the thing most people don't understand here is we want XP gain cut to 1/4th of what it was, we want the same amount of gold cause we like it hard when it starts. Everyone gets their candy in this game... open pvp, pvp with guilds, open world without pvp, solo mode where you can even bring back items you won on the multiplayer market... and I can't get an option that makes me separate from the rest of the world ?

Noone can play offline, there is no recall only gates, vendors and other NPCs are harder to deal with, quests are harder and pay less XP, no XP for PVP... and yes everyone is forced to PVP.

Nobody looses, I might be alone in my instance if really noone likes to play a real mature game but it still wouldn't cost much to add another filter to the selective multiplayer wonderful feature I'm supposed to be happy about but end up being frustrated cause everyone ignores that theres no effect into their game.

 

The main problems with SP are that it requires alot of coding and mods to the original ruleset. I'll say this in terms you understand. : Not...going...to...happen. Down the road, perhaps they will make different servers but until they do I'd like a polished game with content where the game has stuff within it to keep me logging in day after day. I played EQ for 10 years and AC for over 5. EQ was huge. A massive land that took real time to traverse. There was lore, research and abilities beyond combat and crafting. Rare creatures to defeat and reasons to defeat them. Death was harsh and playing with friends made a huge impact on what you did and how successful you were. By that standard, SotA is tiny and almost 2 dimensional at this stage. In-game dynamics are geared toward 2 things. Combat and Crafting and little else besides making stuff to buy in the store. No skullduggery or thief skills, no research. Alot needs to be addressed and it will not be fixed by Episode 1 I'm sure. Time spent on PVP, class balancing and such probably is not so much which is why I think it's getting DEV attention. But that in itself is telling. If a dynamic keeps a portion, even a small one happy then they will do it if it doesn't command alot of development resources. But as a mainly PVE perspective, glaring flaws are still not being addressed and any talk, like SP or PVP is time and effort, in our minds at least not wisely spent. SotA has alot of potential but right now it's not all that addictive to me. I've spent more time and effort adventuring to get crafting components to deco my house and get involved in player events than anything else.

 

That makes some sense Sir Pharlan... but you used a word thats not part of my vocabulary "not going to happen, impossible".

I know about the variety of experiences gamer get, I have myself programmed a few UO freeshards and other types of games, I've even fiddled quite a bit with Unity and Cryengine...

You act like you seem to know what it takes to make me a new filter, cause you obviously don't understand that it dosen't require a server to make what I want.

I'm not an immersion "freak" but when I want to roleplay and be imersed, I like it to make sense and no godmode or artificial protection should be given... I like everything to be much harder because to me, the joy of growing up without looking at my skill list, in an environement where chaos is the norm and where alliance form upon that chaos is the best type of game, cause things you do matter.

I know you're thinking then play single player but thats not exactly what I need... I sure don't mind if said instance would be populated by npcs and player houses already placed would be pretty much empty (to be honest it already kinda looks that way to me) those details which would be indeed harder to code do not matter to me.

What matters is that every vendor I have access to, every item that is supposed to be rare and hard to get because PKs own that spot and I have to organise with 3 guilds to get it back and perhaps intimidate them and feel the glory of a good battle ; I want things to be scarce... so when I find that first platemail (ah yes rewards on that instance would be purely cosmetic...) I am badass... I want the world to evolve and not look like a constant race to end game, then people pvping randomly in towns without any consequence what so ever. I want the only guy who was motivated enough to make a blacksmith and risk his life mining in dangerous lands to be known, he will be "the GM blacksmith at britains forge by the graveyard" and his name will truely be known because he had to organise with a guils to escort his pack llamas full of ore safely back to town.

It's a small thing to code... its another switch on the selective multiplayer and separating the economic system with a few tweaks on skills.

Granted it would take a dev an afternoon or two, but it isn't sorcery far from it... and I'm willing to bet many players will even come back to this title to experience it, I know I'm not alone. I played SP still before I came here, and so many of those people are just waiting for LB to "say the word"... we talked about it daily.

Thats at least 500 people waiting to pledge... not much I concur, but for a small effort in understanding the players you helped forge (it was RG's idea all along, and to me the best bolt of genius he's had during those days)

IF it was an outworldly idea I just had, that never existed anywhere or created a niche for itself I would be like OK... but it isn't and you guys efforts in trying to prevent me from wishing and discussing it in relevant threads isn't going to make it go away. It never went away even if your blatant disregard for it pushed away many potential backers... the underdogs eventually get the attention, we're underground, we're cool and at one point you will want to join.

 

I think you are mixing intents here. @Conleth Pharlan was pointing out the human reaction and impacts of playstyle changes. You are talking about the physical act of coding.

To make a mental comparison: The creation of Trammel was, on paper, just a mirror of Felucca with a few cosmetic changes. Create a portal between the 2 and set one to optional PvP. (over simplified of course)

The human reaction impact was convoluted and should have taken a huge amount of vetting and testing to implement correctly.

A Siege Perilous server is not just a few UI changes to select a mode that is PvP only. The human reaction and playstyle differences in those that would choose that server is monumentally different than the intent of a unified world. Pretty much would need to scrap everything and start over for a SotA Siege Perilous game.

 

Ristra you're talking about a complete experience, with a seer dynamic storyline and custom scripts...

I sure would love that but thats not what we're asking. The only differences I'm asking for are all stated in my previous post, if you notice these are easy to "code" with the current mainframe.

Lower XP gained, big deal ?
Lower items NPC will buy, big deal ?
Prevent people from leaving the instance once they join unless they delete their character... (like Baron Fondorlatos says, no single player either), big deal ? *it would even encourage people to get TWO accounts, more pledges*
No recall, gates very hard to cast, big deal ?

It's all changing simple numbers and equations, theres no coding involved...

You guys are just afraid of change, cause one day and I'm not shy to say it, this will be the only type of ruleset that will be considered mature. I have nothing for me in the game where I can learn to cast a powerful wisp or elemental 4 days after I joined...

It makes no sense for RP, I'm not going to talk about what else makes no sense since I don't want to offend anyone. Tastes are in nature, and well I have 0 taste for a world where I can cross the path of 50 players (I just lived that yesterday) and that noone even says hi cause they look like automatons who cannot be bothered with anything really. I could be the most important knight in the region, provider of critical protection for new players but noone would care.

In fact people cared so little about me since I joined that I think in my WHOLE experience since first release, only 2-3 people told me farewell before logging off in my face after we spent some nice time together.

I'm not talking about hello, goodbye. I'm talking about people I spent time adventuring with and or roleplaying and or simply having fun... even in the last days we played music and people are extreemly rude, they just like play a few songs with you, then they feel tired (nothing wrong with this) and they just bolt off.

Noone bothers about saying bye cause it dosen't matter if people have manners because roleplaying = 0 impact on anyone's priorities.

It makes me not even be able to begin immersion, I do not experience the world thus I just "float" through it.

 

Ristra, can you read this ? I was replying to what I was reading, I know you're really against me having fun with a few other players in a separate instance because you like your one world order and one world religion but it's not the big problem you make it out to be...

Nobody would ever notice any difference in their gameplay, most players wont join and your jolly bunch of worshippers would probably stay right where they are... who else but crazy people want to enjoy the game more slowly with more DnD type approach ?

Who else but crazy people want to experience the joy of finally finding a rusty sword and going OH YEA this is much better than the club I been using cause all my swords were broke and I couldn't find a blacksmith.

We're crazy, deal with it

Ah yes, that reminds me : NO REPAIR DEEDS... a blacksmith has to be online for heavy repairs, simple cheap items repair could perhaps be done by the NPC blacksmith, but hmm I'll have to think about it

 

Nope, that's not even close to what I am talking about.

What happened to the economy post-Tram when the PvP no longer gated PvE and gathering?
What happened to PvP once everyone could level and gear in Trammel then flag for PvP?

That's just 2 profound impacts to how people react to rule changes. Those 2 questions greatly altered gameplay and would have required months of vetting to preserve the pre-Tram gameplay.

The current rules are designed around optional PvP. The impact on the entire world if it's full open PvP and not optional is not simple code change.

 

Please rephrase because I don't see, at all, what that has to do with anything.

We're not talking about forcing a whole playerbase to change, only a few people would join this fresh 100% pvp instance.

 

Answer these 2 questions:

Then I can rephrase anything you like.