full pvp? full loot? like uo?

I actually really enjoy PvP. I really enjoyed Ranked PvP for standing in SWTOR. I now have precisely zero interest in ever trying PvP in SotA ever again since we're allowing macroing for gains.

 

Just have to see how the ransom system plays out, it should work OK because you're still profiting in PvP through paid ransoms or items to salvage or use. One thing I suggested for end game PvP was a small percentage that the oracle doesn't accept gold. The victor automatically gets the items. I'm not sure how you would tie it into lore or virtue. The ransom system seems to function like as-needed item insurance. So players that wear junk gear are more likely to give up junk items without paying gold (salvage) but as their gear becomes more valuable you'll be getting paid gold from your opponents. If the oracle refused the ransom a small percent of the time based on a high adventurer level it's just taking the ransom system one step further. If players abuse the system too much (rez killing) I suppose you could put an immunity timer on the ransom system. So killing the same player over and over would only activate the ransom system the first kill, then if that player is attacked too soon it increases the immunity timer before the ransom system can be activated again. If the player who is being res killed decides to perform an aggressive action on that player first (attacking, stealing, etc), it would wipe out his immunity timer.

 

Maybe we could have a Siege Perilous type of server which caters to those who want to play a full loot/open pvp game?

Splitting the player-base like that might not be a good idea, though. I'm thinking in particular of what Trammel/Fellucia did to UO, and that was a game killer.

Personally the cut-throat nature of UO is what made it so intriguing for me. I'll play Shroud regardless of which direction it goes in regard to PVP, but I would welcome a less "safe" game.

 

There has been some discussion of allowing perhaps certain scenes to allow full-loot, or perhaps for players to opt into it individually. But as it stands, the current loot/ransom system is there as a compromise.

 

Ransom systems are pretty ugly in my experience.

If you've ever played EVE I think you'll know what I'm talking about. I appreciate that there is an effort to cater to PVP players, but I gotta say that something more cut-and-dry would be preferable.

I'm of course only speaking for myself.

 

I'd enjoy a well fleshed out quest line, in tune with the contraband example, that opens you to full loot. High risk of encounters for PvP, high reward for killing you and looting, and high payouts.

But it's a controlled situation and not something that dumps high level players onto new, low level, and inexperienced players.

 

compromise...

feels more like a product than a game... medieval sims with pvp functionalities... where is the soul..

macroing is really allowed or were you just being ironic ?

I hope you were...

 

Worthy of note, I feel, is the fact that if full loot PVP is implemented as a way to make certain quests more risk/reward oriented, we would very likely see aggressive camping of those quest areas that would lead to some pretty uncivilized player interaction.

 

Ristra why do you focus so much on those extremes... thats why low levels join high level guilds and you have tons of guilds like LLTS (shameless plug) who are willing to defend low level players. Beyond the fact that you are right and it does happen that a few bad apples ruin it for others, it just feels like you cannot let go...

chill bro... it was just fair pvp... you just had to bring more friends if you were to venture into the deep jungle...

I can't remember how many times I got my whole house looted by a bug and was so happy that my rares were into a secret backup house... but still... all those FULL HOUSES I lost... I didn't cry.

I was still UO, even if I had just a club and a torch, I was the avatar... I could kill orcs and bandits and salvage their cloth as bandage and there I was gaming again. I had many characters and could just change playstyle and roleplay and never even feel the breeze of a pvper in the whole damn day.

Why is it so hard to explain why this playstyle is loved ? It's like I was sitting at a D&D table and saying sorry I can lose stuff I'm not playing.

I got looted thousands of times, the rush to get back and manage to distract the murderer and get some of my stuff back was worth the whole process.

Any adolescent understands this... thats why people do extreme sports too... its common sense...

 

I remember my characters who went red before hitting even 55 swordsmanship in the Brit sewers, preying on those who weren't cautious in maintaining escape routes when they got surrounded by giant toads and slimes.

Oh, man I was a real piece of work.

 

Sadly, I am not.

With the switch to usage-based progression, more people are running macros and nothing is being done to stop it. The tech lead said directly people are free to macro because he does not think they will get benefit from it.

The system he implemented is that you need earned XP in your pool first. Then you repeat a task enough, and you get skill gains (such as through the macro). If you macro all night, but didn't have much XP, you'll run out of XP and only get so many gains. But others are already running macros that get you both XP and the skill gains.

Usage-based progression ALWAYS leads to macros and more grinding, but that is the decision that was made.

There is no skill cap. People tolerate macros in UO because it just gets you to the end quicker, but at the end, everyone has the same equal skill cap (though I still believe it to be cheating). We don't have a cap. But we do have decay. Macros will help others battle decay while normal players will be more likely to see skills atrophy.

So PvP will not be entirely fair or competitive. The people taking your gear with the loot system will be those who best optimize skill gains and macros.

The game has implemented a system that makes cheating easier and rewards it. I will never play PvP in such a system, and sadly it erodes my overall desire to play the game.

 

I understand where you coming from Ender... but don't throw the towel yet... I know RG and he's not going to let it happen, at one point he's bound to put his foot on the table, if thats a real expression :S

What I mean is that this game will not go on without a "soul"... and such requires a community that receives constant GM support and Seers of course to take the pulse of the more dynamic player base (pvpers and other casual gamers) in order to keep things interesting for them as well.

Anyone that really loves gaming will eventually come to that conclusion because thats how our imagination work, it loves to expand but it also loves to be moderated because sometimes really, good taste and ethics are really more stimulating than the game itself.

That is the end goal... a game where people buy and support through the game store because they get their share of mental stimulation AND entertainment. Not one or the other... both at the same time which makes communities and dream made manifest.

I could get really deep about this philosophy but I won't because I've spent myself enough on here trying to show people why its really telling that they despise my inner child (the one that keeps asking for siege perilous).

The whole process needs to be reinvented yes, its effort yes... but isn't it the goal to have an independant studio ?

Maybe this is shocking but I'm thinking about Donald Trump and the republicans right now...

And what do the ultimas teach us ? That the avatar is infaillible ?

NO, far from it, it teaches us that we should always introspect, always meditate because often good intentions are not enough, having love and truth and courage is not enough...

and thats why like it or not "UO fanbois" like many people here like to say in a condescending manner (which is really offensive because much less derogatory terms have been punished with so much acuity) are here to stay.

They really admire what RG has created, and even RG himself is powerless to remove that from them.

They really know how to appreciate wisdom because they've been through hardships in all consciousness.

Everybody knew the economy was pointless because hackers... everybody pvper, murderers and bards alike bit down on the stick and endured.

There is a unity behind all this and it SCARES people, if I was a game maker I'd JUMP ON THAT OPPORTUNITY.

Every moment lost can never be regained...

 

I'm not sure if we'll have seers and GMs, but I appreciate the spirit of your post and I sure hope you are correct.

 

What you call not fun was the greatest fun i ever had.

Yes i got killed and i got looted.
I was poor again

- this did lead to the game having a long term goal SotA will never have. A long term motivation.

I started to save money to get a house.
I startet to purchase back up armors - plenty.

My house was full one day - took months but i was proud.

I had achieved alone 10 chest with recovery items.

1 was full of bags. Each bag had a complete restock set.

It was fun getting to that point.
You made contacts with good vendors, smiths , potions sellers.
You had a reason to find players who crafted with reasonable prices.

So there was a fun to build up a social network of good business relations.
I loved it.

Later one i even managed to have full chest of silver weapons, power weapons.

I did start hunting PK. I guarded miners and dangerous locations.

I had thankfull players who i helped to stay save.
I was able to create a free vendor i placed at hunting spots.

If a player got killed he got a free bag with 1 recall scroll, bandages and recall rune to britain.

So to counter your post Ender - what is frustration for one made the hole purpose of fun for others.

My fun was destroyed the moment Trammel came - complety.

And most important: I was no PK - but i understood the importance of them.


I wan't to take a moment to say Thank you to all the PK's who played the evil role to make the most meaningfull Game ever for me.

 

Myrcello... if I wasn't a man I'd probably let myself have emotions right now and shed a tear for the good times...

ahem I didn't expect this, and thank you...

 

I didn't read the whole thread but I feel your pain. I prayed for another UO for a long time, and found shroud. After playing in the beginning i got bored and started to play UO forever, probably the most pro and active free shard. The community there needs mental help. The PVP is Gnarley and totally dependent on macro SCRIPTS via 3rd party apps and ZERGS. People are mean for pleasure, which is no fun if your on the wrong end of it. Here we have a fresh new game that is figuring itself out. The good PVP i have found here has been in active open PVP towns via beef and rivalry's which we have stirred up ourselves. No one is playing now because of the upcoming wipe and for me thats kind of sweet. It gets boring, but its an honor to be an OG at whatever i choose to be. I find myself being more social, positive and negative. Pre alpha is for developing relationships for when the game releases. If you love UO just for PVP this game may not be right for you. If you give it a chance and PM me to hang out, you may just be surprised at the potential

Once the game releases it will only be a short time before people start to grand master skills whether it be through playing or macros (if its not fixed). Even with the skill decay this should become a pretty equal playing field dependent on the skills we pick. In PVP the advantage i believe will have to do with a combination of skill level, tactical combat decisions, or size of the pvp group, lots of factors. With the usage based system people can macro skills a bit, I don't really see this as a problem once the game is going strong. You have a choice to flag or not to and we can all do so when level, but we still may get zerged and ganked by a big group or loose via another factor. I fell PVP in game is like PVP IRL, you have to take every advantage possible to win or the other man will. just my opinion

Macros are definitely exploitable here as it stands. I have built a lot of them for testing. I have experimented on a lot and was intending to announce the exploits before launch. Currently its pretty easy for me to design a macro via the razer keyboard the game promotes to, kill and loot, I haven't had the time to exploit this but wow, macro farming can really hurt an economy and i think that is the real issue. this has to and WILL be fixed

 

Well they pulled out for months now the Zombies - that is basically the reason i am not playing it. The heart of the Game , the Main Danger, is not back in. The moment the Zombies are back in , and much more dangerous as they promised, and able to run around in hordes - i am so back into DayZ and it will be awesome.

 

Obviously you won't get it if I explained. You haven't in all the times I have responded to you. So the day SotA changes to forced full open PvP full loot and most people choose not to PvP by not logging in then I'll make that post for you.

We are no longer ignorant of how people will take the path of least resistance for loot pinatas. Why build the core of the game around destroying the new player retention. It failed UO, they won't make that mistake again.

 

Watching other people suffer has always been popular. Schadenfreude, I believe it's called.

 

SotA has Single Player Online, which avoids every one of those scenarios.

 

There is partial looting, and there has been mention by the devs of scenes that will allow full loot. The partial looting that's currently in-game is enough to make me not wanna die to someone, butnot be afraid to use some good stuff if i need to fight, as well as making PvP a potentially lucrative business.

There is goign to be a full character wipe in a couple of weeks, which is contributing to the low activity at the moment. There are full wipes regularly while the game is still in development adn that also contributes to a lower population.