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Goodbye Open PvP

Discussion in 'Release 16 Feedback' started by Net, Apr 23, 2015.

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  1. StrangerDiamond

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    In other words... I am beginning to think I made it on Baron Francisco's ignore list... dang :S
     
  2. TantX

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    I agree, there should be a system in place for accountability, justice, reputation repercussions. UO had a barebones model of it that was extremely flimsy; some of the most noble members of a community were red. ArcheAge tried it with the jail system, but it was little more than a speed bump and more of a farce, than anything. In that regard, I agree.

    I'm just saying that open PvP and letting players determine what victory and defeat mean when the dust settles is still very attractive to players, which is why games like DayZ, Rust, even Star Citizen have such a following. It appeals to our admiration of the Wild West, and law at the end of a six-shooter, wringing out injustice with our bare, bloodied hands.
     
  3. StrangerDiamond

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    Exactly my toughts, as a seer I realised this very early... back then even with MUDS...

    I would like people's friendship to be tested, I want even more... I want the story to be breathing and alive.

    The devs should participate, each should have his vision and the forum will be the game.

    We need to at least try... it would make so many things simpler too !
     
  4. StrangerDiamond

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    Sadly I fear they're all afraid of the dark...

    But is it really wiser to let it seep in slowly behind the scenes ?

    Who's to say right...

    who am I to say...
     
  5. Lord Lonn

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    Just my 2c on this thread and how I see the open PvP
    I think this thread has had some really good posts and some pretty off track.
    This video was filmed at PoT event meeting not a eating event etc....
    So why would you think the Criminals would show up at a Event like this so close to a WIPE!!!
    When everyone is going to be equal, no money ......
    So do you think these criminals are Dev+? I don't
    I've been in the test server... I don't see them in there... at all do you the Dev's that are in there
    So why would they come to a PoT meeting huh huh
    Do I have to spell it out there cheap gankers that have low level accounts, use hacks of some kind, exploits whatever they can to get a "name" yes we are all talking about [Jacob Canaan] why why why? [Xail] why why why?
    Ignore these Avatars they are just making the game no fun it's not Chaos they are a pain in the *** is all...
    I don't care if they attack me all the time, because now in the future I have lot protection so.... what say you.
    There is /nozone protection no flag i'm just TIRED of the low life games really. It's not Role Playing.
    I like PvP Events to be fun not disrupted by Foul language PK'ers that come in and cry because they can't play fair and I emphasize {fair} Win or Lose we have seen the catastrophic results of rage from these Pk'ers sore winners and losers once again I emphasize {loser}
    So back to my point of why would they come to a PoT event..... leech handouts gimme PK'ers deserve some too..... huh
     
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  6. StrangerDiamond

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    thats it, get it out of your system !
     
  7. Xi_

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    i think you should get it in the system lol, I mean i have killed jacob so many times I don't really see what the problem is :p ... granted it's been a couple of releases for me :p
     
  8. StrangerDiamond

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  9. Poor game design

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    I like the comparison to "the wild west" a lot.

    But again, we forget that in the wild west when you died you stayed dead. Billy the Kid was famous in part because he accomplished a lot while he was alive. Not because he came back from the dead and did the same thing over and over again.
     
  10. StrangerDiamond

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    Ok I must definately be on your ignore list, but I'll say it nonetheless... again.

    I've suggested this ages ago :

    We can limit the lives a player get, the higher the level, the less lives he get in a given day, or week maybe since we'll have more than one characters on the account ?

    This is common sense to me... to roleplay you have to know you can make limited errors before you're out, at least for a while so you cannot repeatedly do stupid things :)
     
  11. StrangerDiamond

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    With cloud computing we can even set it so that players to whom you have confirmed the game that you are going to roleplay real death with, count while idiot griefers who show up with dozens of low level account just to get you would have no influence on your official "death count"

    I do have solutions for every of those "problems", and once again I did not invent it, it was given to me straight by Xorinia.

    I don't even want to imagine how she/he feels right now, must be red with anger... steam coming out of the ears *intended pun*
     
  12. Archibald Leatherneck

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    I feel this is a gross overstatement. Comparing the number of paid subscriptions versus freeshard players is comparing apples and oranges. There are some freeshards that have been persistent but freeshards by their very nature are unstable. How would you even count the number of freeshard players? Your "doubles if not triples" comment suggests you don't have a count of paid subscriptions, freeshard players or both which begs the question of how you know that it is double much less triple?

    Assuming you had the numbers and it was actually double or triple on freeshards, you would have to separate the freeshards that have "open PvP rulesets" to determine the ratio that you offered up. As you exclude freeshards without "open PvP rulesets", your ratio would be diminished. None of this speaks to the fact that many of those freeshards that have "open PvP rulesets" still have rules (e.g. murder system) and mechanics (e.g. town guards) that dissuade wanton PvP just like UO.

    So why does one play on a freeshard? It could be for many reasons. I would argue that chief among them is because that is the alternative to UO production shards. Maybe you are tired of paying the subscription. Maybe you are tired of whatever studio is running UO this year. Maybe the friends you had in UO have left and there isn't much left for you. Maybe you are following a friend or friends to a freeshard (I would think most of that has already happened).

    You might play because you enjoy the game mechanics of a specific era and you go in search of a freeshard that is a pure interpretation or a developed interpretation of the era that you prefer. You might play because you went in search of a freeshard that catered to your preferred play style (e.g. enforced RP). You might have gone in search of PvP but that is a long stretch to say that populations on freeshards are primarily because freeshards offer "open PvP rulesets". They don't all offer "open PvP rulesets" and I would argue that the examples you would point out don't actually offer ungoverned Open PvP in the same context as SotA seems poised to offer absent the Meta PvP post that is forthcoming.



    I wholeheartedly agree and this is where I have a dog in the fight. This is why I don't want PvP to be an all or nothing proposition. I am fine with some all or nothing PvP opportunity for this who want the opportunity. I think Open PvP zones are likely the best way to accomplish this as long as Portalarium addresses the issues that have been raised in this thread and many others as they develop SotA further but that is rather germane because they should be addressed regardless. I want a middle ground where the majority of players (or at least many) spend the majority of their time. That could be flagged as Open PvP if there were rules governing Open PvP flag which is where we meet the crux... Open PvPers don't want Open PvP to be governed. A Hybrid PvP flag?
     
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  13. Themo Lock

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    The issue is not with open PVP (everybody knows what turning that on means), the issue is with PVP at this stage of development, there is no penalty from murdering, no looting and too many exploits. Socio-paths running in to disrupt events while spamming obscenities, being killed by the people guarding, then instantly being alive and repeating the process over and over and over is not PVP, it is harassment.
     
  14. TantX

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    Agreed, which is why I'm so excited with the direction Star Citizen is taking with "Death of a Spaceman".
     
  15. StrangerDiamond

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  16. Poor game design

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    I'm against any type of "permadeath". I think it's bad game design.

    Games need a start and a finish, rules, and agreed upon ways of tracking success. Permadeath can certainly do that, however the beauty of "games" is that they're past times that allow us to replay them again and again. Permadeath is too finalistic, especially when you consider the unstable randomness of latency, day to day player chaos, and the limitations of the game world.

    Instead of permadeath, I prefer something more forgiving but still able to hold players accountable with meaningful consequences. Reputation, virtue, factions, we've all seen how easy it is to manipulate these over the years. But I think this is because they have not been linked to power. What I think needs to happen in SOTA is that power should go to those that deserve it the most. Those that deserve it the most would be the ones that performed the desired actions of their faction. For example, if you followed the "god of death and misery" you might get more power the more people you spawn camp and gank. However, this will also put you in direct opposition to the "god of warm fluffy feelings" and result in making it harder and harder to have access to anyone of this faction to spawn camp or gank. Want more power? Perform actions that are appreciated by your faction. It's really a simple equation and it also doesn't require you to roll a new character.
     
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  17. StrangerDiamond

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    Now you're repeating my suggestions while still ignoring me...

    This is highly confusing.

    I just gave the solution to the problem you are reciting and at the same time you repeat my previous solution... ?

    *massages head*
     
  18. Poor game design

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    I've touted this solution before. I wasn't ignoring you. We're in agreement.
     
  19. StrangerDiamond

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    Thank you, its just I remember we went over that, I think it was last summer, I can't recall how long I've gone !

    What do you think about my solution ? If you flagged that you are really roleplaying permadeath with someone and death happens, it could be a solution to make some situations really epic.

    Then there could be temporary perma-death as well... say you are at war with another guild, and the guild roleplays and everyone knows its being played fair, well you flag for temporary perma death with that guild or group and then guild wars cannot go on infinitely, and roleplayers have something to write in their books.

    Thus if you got ganked , that would be a normal death, it would never become permadeath if you got just res killed.
     
  20. Poor game design

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    I think any solution that has permadeath, temporary or not, is a bad solution. What I think you and I are in agreement on is that there can be factions, reputation, and virtues that reward power to those that deserve it. It's complicated. Here's one example though. Say you have someone that follows the path of Virtue. That player is not going to get "power" if they are attacking other players or NPC's first. That player is not going to get "power" if they are stealing, lying, etc... This is going to be sometimes difficult to track player vs. player, but it's possible (I think). So the person with the most power in the "path to virtue" is going to be the one that personifies that path the most. There's your Paladin. And so by "power" I mean that this player would have incredible rewards in comparison to someone at the bottom of the virtue pyramid. There would be other factions that mirrored this type of interaction and some of them would overlap with virtue while others would be opposed to it.

    The point is, even in death you may be serving your faction the best way that you can. This makes death more meaningful because "winners" are not always going to be the ones that win a fight. That's completely different than anything we've played before.
     
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