Discussion in 'Release 16 Feedback' started by Net, Apr 23, 2015.
@Net I might have a solution for you that will not require you to plead for help from SoTA or anyone else. It is a way for you to have exactly what you want and for someone like Envy to have what he wants as well. My solution is as follows: Envy and you love PVP because you want to fight other players. Therefore you should ask Envy to guard your tournaments because it gives him a chance to attack other players. He might ask for a favor in return or player money, etc. But it is much better to ask someone who wants a chance to kill other players than trying to have enough influence to get SoTA to help you or, even worse, trying to convince PVE people to help. PVPers should help each other find excuses to kill other players.
Really wish I could........but I can't bring myself to do anything like that..............this is what PvP in SotA is:
A picture of alleged PvPers loving the randomness and uncertainty....maybe if enough of them engage in combat, just 1 might be able to randomly do something that was intended.
Sorry but in its current form......its not for me unless I really really had to.
Picture is worth a thousand words
I find myself agreeing with Envy, I would PVP myself in order to numb me on how sad it makes me feel.
Yes our expectations were high, but we were hammered with the excuse "if only EA wasn't there" I would do this and like this...
and now, this ? We know that some functionality is yet to be implemented... its the general, everything.
Feel like going back to UO...
What about the Planetside-2-Griefing-System? For killing friendly players you accumulate grief points. If you have a certain amount of grief points, your weapons are disabled.
This could work in SotA, too. The Oracle watches everyone. If players grief, they accumulate grief points and if they have a certain amount the Oracle punishes them and they cannot use their weapons, spells and armor anymore for a certain amount of time.
It's too arbitrary and contrary to roleplaying spirit... sadly you're not going to see any of us roll with that.
But nice try ! At least you try...
The oracle sees and watches everything yes, but he cannot lay the hand of god on a player... it's gotta be more complex than that !
Theres many gods to please, maybe some of them can access the oracle, but you gotta weave something that leaves imagination and camaradery in the context. Theres gotta be varying delays too.
I'm more for limiting the "lives" everyone has in a certain period of time than limiting the avatar with the "hand of god".
Lives matter, silly "griefing" well... blah, there's no solid looting ruleset yet even, why should it matter ? isn't there a godmode ignore button ? Isn't the game limiting the players themselves in retribution ?
It's such a convoluted mess...
It isn't that I disagree. My question is how do WE address (or not address) the issue raised by Net where Open PvP is an all or nothing proposition? If it isn't addressed, it seems to me that there is no middle ground which is where the vast majority of players reside.
My best overall UO experience by far was Siege Perilous. Best guild experience was on Atlantic and best RP experience was on a freeshard. It still remains that Siege was my personal favorite overall. It was partially the "veteran" skill training and sense of accomplishment when you developed a 7xGM character. It was partially the sense of danger that you experienced with a pervasive rule set that couldn't be avoided by going to Trammel or Malas. In a much larger part, it was the community on Siege Perilous. There were many on Siege that weren't "PvPers" to include myself but there was space to occupy because the community created space.
I don't see something similar to Siege Perilous occurring in SotA for a multitude of reasons but I use it as a reference. My concern lies in what I see as a very likely outcome where there are two separate communities much like production shards in UO. If there is no middle ground then there is no space to occupy if you aren't inherently adverse to PvP but you don't appreciate the environment in Open PvP. Even in Felucca, there was some measure of space to occupy if you weren't inherently a PvPer but were willing to avoid the bulk of the risk in some fashion. If Open PvP is an all or nothing proposition, I struggle to see any middle ground.
I asked how WE address issue raised by Net where Open PvP is an all or nothing proposition. You may disagree but I am unsure that those flagged Open PvP benefit in the long run from an all or nothing proposition. Sure, those flagged Open PvP get a rule set that they can live with but how long does the Open PvP community thrive? I imagine that those flagged Open PvP might benefit if there was more space for other middle of the road players who aren't adverse to PvP but don't necessarily care for the toxicity of the Open PvP community.
Perhaps we are not concerned if Open PvP becomes an all or nothing proposition.
But the Oracle can already magically protect you and prevent other from attacking you... If you consider this it basically is godlike.
I suppose my view is there is nothing to address. Open PvP is exactly what it says, you can't go to areas that purposely don't have rules and then complain that some players don't play to the same moral standing. There are non-PvP areas and Arena's all of which you can PvP by explicit consent and should have flexible rule-sets surrounding them.
However no player should ever flag themselves as PvP and then conplain that they die regardless how they are killed. If a player doesnt have the stomach for open PvP, don't flag and don't go to those areas........and if you do, DONT complain about it.
I agree with you on all accounts, but for the part that says open pvp is supposed to have no rules.
Open pvp means you can fight anyone any time. It doesn't mean the combat system can't be more sophisticated and have rules built into it that allow for more competitive battles.
What's shown in the OP is a great example of a horrible combat system. Open or not open. I think that's the problem. The combat system (currently) encourages spawn camping, beating up on people that are lower level than you are, and fighting first while asking questions later.
In my opinion, we need removing /zone asap.
Too easy to be targeted by murderer !
We at least need to be able to block /zone.
It's good for social and testing purposes. Eventually it needs to go away completely.
Nothing wrong in spawn camping, if too many people die it just means that the either the players who die have no skill, or/and the skills attached to combat itself are not balanced enough or geared in any way to cater for heavy combat. People spawn camp all the time in UO, in general you only die if you go to an area unprepared and dont expecting the unexpected.
I have no problem with people that spawn camp. I have a problem with game designs that make it easy or encourage it. I have no doubts that spawn camping will not be as frequent in SOTA over time.
However, I will say that spawn camping is a very low form of pvp. If you killed someone once, you're surly going to kill them again when they are trying to recover from the death penalty. So if spawn camping is something people are advocating for, I'd say those people enjoy very low grade pvp.
To each their own, some people like checkers more than they like chess.
for every action there is a reaction. If the game does not provide balance the players will either take it or leave it. The question is how long they will take it.
I'm happy with it all.....
If I see an easy kill I will take it without remorse
Right, and you're not alone.
What I'm saying is that games allowing this type of aggressive play don't last long. So games need to design pvp (even open pvp) with that in mind. Players can't regulate themselves, so the game has to.
How many years did UO last?
With unregulated PVP and without real competition from other graphical MMO's? Not very long.
How's Darkfall doing?
Still going very well.....still has spawn camping....still has the ganking groups......still has a very strong PvP community.
What do we have in SotA? frustrating combat and skill trees that force you to go random or waste skill points.
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