Dismiss Notice
This Section is READ ONLY - All Posts Are Archived

Healing makes combat bad

Discussion in 'Release 21 Feedback' started by Poor game design, Aug 28, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. smack

    smack Avatar

    Messages:
    7,077
    Likes Received:
    15,285
    Trophy Points:
    153
    I'm pretty sure that's going to happen in much later Releases.
     
  2. Beaumaris

    Beaumaris Avatar

    Messages:
    4,233
    Likes Received:
    7,349
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caladruin
    I agree with that point - as the skill trees are structured, why wouldn't everyone train in healing.

    However, I'm holding out a little hope that shield, blocking, parrying, and dodging ultimately are balanced right to make light, agile rangers or sturdy heavy tanks able to survive without hitting the heal button, instead relying on those other skills. We will see.

    I like the proposed solution for game balancing at least. Take away heal now during alpha, and balance the game without it, then add it back for those that want healing otherwise (so it is optional/equivalent to other skills, but somehow not OP)
     
    4EverLost likes this.
  3. SmokerKGB

    SmokerKGB Avatar

    Messages:
    2,223
    Likes Received:
    2,798
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pittsburg, CA
    You're "nutty as a fruit cake"... At Christmas time...
     
  4. Poor game design

    Poor game design Avatar

    Messages:
    18,207
    Likes Received:
    35,494
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    I feel the same way about people that don't see what I see sometimes.
     
    mbomber and Sara Dreygon like this.
  5. Xi_

    Xi_ Avatar

    Messages:
    1,797
    Likes Received:
    3,774
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Location:
    Jade Valley
    this is akin to what i hate about olot of table top games with magical healing, one cleric in the party and your pretty much invincible. Try playing a campaign where the only class in the game is fighter, much more challenging, and much more likely to create a memorable moment.
     
    Sara Dreygon likes this.
  6. redfish

    redfish Avatar

    Messages:
    11,306
    Likes Received:
    27,570
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Its one of the reasons I've mainly been playing light armor, too. I had to figure out how to use the defense skills without the armor and heal skills as crutches. I also tried to play using torches instead of the light spell too.
     
    Sara Dreygon and Moonshadow like this.
  7. jschoice

    jschoice Avatar

    Messages:
    312
    Likes Received:
    635
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicagoland aka the burbs
    I am not sure they will bring bandages in this game. I did ask the Devs in a deep dive about bandages, food, or changes to potions for healing and they said none of that will be in game. I hope that will be considered moving forward as I enjoy multiple ways for people to heal other then casting spells.
     
    Lord Baldrith and Sara Dreygon like this.
  8. Luka Melehan

    Luka Melehan Avatar

    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    398
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I found if difficult to add in defensive skills, so healing touch was my first choice. I use light armor which has some defensive stuff but it will take time to prioritize that. And I think ot was mentioned that the basic heal is tiny until you can get the innates going. I have tried kiting with archery, but backing into more mobs is rarely a good idea. So using my heal a lot keeps me alive. I am hoping as I progress, my focus will get better so I can handle more defensive skills. The way I had my deck in R20 I didn't have to use healing spells often, but to get to that point now it will take some tedious time. Reagents? I have to sell them to pay for skills and arrows.
     
  9. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

    Messages:
    10,118
    Likes Received:
    24,565
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    United States
    Well I don't think nerfing heals is the solution. Already once they are working correctly the alcohol content of them that is planned will start to cause effects to our characters like perhaps and hopefully "feels dizzy", "staggers", perhaps even slips and falls who knows. Anyway if we don't see some defensive measures put in place people will just use heal, heal, heal because it is what we have. I have played games with little heal, but I always had some way to survive if I was quick and used the defense at thte right times. Like holding your shield up for a limited amount of time to regenerate a little, being on a timer of course. Also there is a little difference for pvp verses pve just my opinion on that, I am not a pvp expert by any means. Give us some things to do defensively to have fun playing. I don't necessarily like fight, heal, fight, heal then do it again over and over. I do like the challenge of playing a fun to play character such as my warrior in vanguard. She had very, very little ability to heal but every so often her class feature of a small heal would kick in to help her survive. Also there is the other side of this. If playing a dungeon with a group fighting difficult creatures and having it planned out so you have support and cooperation from the people you are grouping with. I loved some of the boss battles in world of warcraft and the strategy that was involved. Like one player might have had an interrupt that might have to be used at a specific time to stop the bosses bad aoe, and healers had to keep on their toes to keep the group alive. It doesnt seem we will have as much of those dynamics in this game since we seem to be going in a different direction, but I mention because some may try to have groups do things like that since many are use to it. So the only way I would vote for healing adjustments would be if our system give us things to do instead and not just death magic, come on. My warrior will not want to do death magic. Anyway I don't have the solution. It is tougher than just saying nerf it though, I know you said more Baron, and I am trying to address that in my wordy way;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2015
    Lord Baldrith and mbomber like this.
  10. Kara Brae

    Kara Brae Avatar

    Messages:
    3,880
    Likes Received:
    12,223
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Bavaria
    I only combat NPC mobs, but if I can't heal myself I might as well quit the game altogether.
     
  11. mdsota152

    mdsota152 Avatar

    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    2,047
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Virginia
    ... sure #1 is an option.... if your goal is to not advance any attack skill and be the world's greatest healer. If all you are doing is using heal and auto attack I don't see how you're going to skill up in any active combat skills?? So why would you use option 1 unless you are planning to just skill up healing? Sounds like people who are using #1 are missing out on chances to level up other skills. It's their loss... no need to nerf healing for their poor play style. #'s 2-4 are what get you levels in active skills other than healing.
     
    Kara Brae likes this.
  12. Burzmali

    Burzmali Avatar

    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    1,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I've been toying with these strategies for the last few hours and it seems that leveling your passive skills and healing over active skills is probably a better used of XP at the moment. I did notice that active skills are a better use of focus when you are facing a group as the damage cone acts as a force multiplier.
     
  13. KuBaTRiZeS

    KuBaTRiZeS Avatar

    Messages:
    1,507
    Likes Received:
    3,400
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Spain
    Drocis is showing a real problem, but maybe not proposing the most comfortable solution. I do think healing is the best defensive mechanic but i don't think we need to remove it altogether. I've talked about my favourite solutions a lot, i just want to share something that just happened because i think it illustrates well the problem that healing causes the way it is.

    I'm currently exploring Novia with my girlfriend who's playing with a tanky build of plate and shield (and who have almost no experience in MMORPGs). Because of that she has lots of defensive mechanics (currently Glancing blow, Deflect, Block and Parry) besides healing. We're struggling to kill something as almost everyone else, so she's having a hard time handling all the enemies. She's also having focus problems as a melee, and she usually depletes it near the death of an enemy (fighting two usually requires to run off combat to "rest").

    I've just seen her health dropping quite fast while fighting wolves, and told her why she's not using all the defensive mechanics she has. She just answered that she was saving focus to heal herself. She's a new player, who's been instructed (by me) to use his defensive mechanics as often as they pop up to mitigate damage, and by herself noticed that healing was, by far, the best defensive skill to invest focus into.

    Heal could be fine as it is, though i like it to change the way it works. What we really need is to make defensive mechanics to be at least as good as healing. They're currently buffed (i already saw my first dodge by activating dodge, yay!) but healing is still superior, in the opinion of some players.
     
    mbomber and Moonshadow like this.
  14. Chatele

    Chatele Avatar

    Messages:
    1,525
    Likes Received:
    3,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    USA
    I say leave Healing ALONE... as an ARCHER I would not stand a chance killing a flee without HEALING .... If you don't like it THEN don't use it .... simple :) And I solo mostly, so going with a group won't help here .....
     
  15. Xi_

    Xi_ Avatar

    Messages:
    1,797
    Likes Received:
    3,774
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Location:
    Jade Valley

    archers arnt suppose to be taking damage all the time, sounds like an archery issue to me, not to sound crass or rude but purhaps you just need a better tactical approach? at any rate, if improved tactics wern't enough to keep me from having to constantly heal as archer i'd simply stop playing an archer as its broken.
     
  16. KuBaTRiZeS

    KuBaTRiZeS Avatar

    Messages:
    1,507
    Likes Received:
    3,400
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Spain
    Wouldn't it be best if besides healing, you could rely on dodge and tumble as reliable mechanics? Wouldn't it be reasonable that some archers could live without healing, relying on resting off combat while protecting themselves with defensive mechanics like tumble and dodge? The fact that healing is so appreciated is, in my opinion, other factor to be taken in consideration while approaching this issue.

    I think Archer playstyle may be deemed as broken. As an archer myself i thought about not raising healing at all... but in the end i changed my mind as well. Some enemies run faster now, and some others attack in packs... i'm cool with that (in fact i like it) but being outnumbered and outrunned (and spiders, oh god the spiders) i need to (heavily) rely on healing. But just because its broken us archers need to keep playing as archers, so we can speak our mind regarding what we want to play :D
     
  17. Magnnus

    Magnnus Avatar

    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Right now, the life tree is least affected by wearing heavy armor. Reversing that should help. Squishy cloth mages could use powerful healing, while armored tanks just tank that damage.
     
    KuBaTRiZeS likes this.
  18. Chatele

    Chatele Avatar

    Messages:
    1,525
    Likes Received:
    3,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    USA
    hehehe I am still wearing plate armor from when I played my tank .... can't afford to repalce it yet as an archer ..... I don't like cloth .... and cloth has better stats then leather.... and chain mail is still heavy armor ..... was hoping it was light so I could use the skills in light armor for my archer, but NOPE
     
    KuBaTRiZeS, cartodude and Moonshadow like this.
  19. No Longer In Use

    No Longer In Use Avatar

    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    YES! You should kill monsters with KINDNESS! Make love, not war -- TO THE DEATH!
     
  20. Zassik Dreadmort

    Zassik Dreadmort Avatar

    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Utah
    So what's the difference if you click a button called dodge and take no damage or click a button called heal and regain the damage lost from that attack?

    I don't get the point here. It seems like calling something a heal offends some people. Change the name of the skill that allows a character to survive a fight and everyone else will just use that.

    With no survivabilty skills every fight is just a dps check. Change which skills add survivability and everyone will "have to use" those skills.
     
    Jaxtron, cartodude and 4EverLost like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.