How to make SotA great (please read carefully before posting)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Corv, Jun 21, 2018.

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  1. Floors

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    Alleine, you've been doing a great job, I've seen you on youtube doing it. But you are right. Us, the whales, those of us that have a passion for the game, we need to step up and help.
    That means no more defending things we KNOW are not good enough. But also means being balanced and being reasonable because we know that Port is limited, especially after "Company Status".
     
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  2. Alleine Dragonfyre

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    I don't know what the context was where you were using the word "millenial" but any time the word is used it smacks of ageism. Ageism is to discriminate or apply definitions on an individual or group of individuals based on their age, if you weren't aware.

    Also, young people play the **** out of MMOs. So if we're trying to say that this game is for older people, only because the original backers were mostly UO fans, I think it's a mistake.
     
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  3. Amber Raine

    Amber Raine Community Ambassador (FR)

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    First, yes, I saw the post and had to get my two - cents in. Second, you are not going to like it. But if honesty is what you want, honesty is what you are going to get, a virtue I hold very strongly but have stayed "silent" about for far too long.

    How to make Shroud "decent" , I won't even get into "good", I won't even get into "better", can we at least reach decent?

    1) I am sorry that I can not be sorry, wipe and redo the combat system! What? Yes I said it, the current way that the combat system is supposed to work just well for lack of better word, sucks.
    • Still having to focus on hotkey bar and miss enjoyment of combat
      • in group current combat means as a healer you may be missing heals on your team as you are watching your hotkey bar
    • If you use locked decks to avoid having to watch for stackables, you get weaker power?!?
      • This... this is my biggest issue. Not everyone is able to focus or understand the rotating deck.
      • Not everyone possesses the motor functions to quickly, QUICKLY, stack abilities while watching the game around them
      • If you are a healer, you are waiting on heals to "pop" up and by the time you get that heal, you have to wait for another to stack it for better heal, by then the person you are healing for is dead!
      • locked deck, is weaker then stacking. Why are we being punished for not being able to adjust to this weird way of combat?
    • LoS - Failed Spell Cast, Fizzle, etc
      • This, as a spell caster, more importantly a healer. I have more times then not seen a member of my party low on health, only to cast the strongest heal I have, takes the longest to cast, only to hit the person next to me!?! What?
        • I was told this was because my target was out of sight or too far away. If it can't be cast on the person, don't let it be cast at all!
        • If you are waiting a good 2-3 seconds to cast a spell either cancel the cast if the target gets out of range, or FIZZLE, do we remember fizzle? Do not make it cast the full time only to heal the person next to you that doesn't need it!
          Also... I have had this occur when the person has not been out of LOS and was not out of reach.. My spell would target the person next to me because they were closest, even though I had someone else targeted.
    • I am sorry but I can not be sorry, the entire combat system, minus the targeting.. was a novel, unique and interesting concept, but in function, actual usability, it falls short of the mark.
    • How to help fix it - Remove the "need" for cards, allow both play styles but do not punish the person who can not either do the rotating deck or would rather watch the combat and not the hotkey bar.

    2) Community builder appreciation. - ONBE/CNBE/Royal Warrant. (I know this is where I am going to get set on fire as a witch, that is okay, my ancestors had it done I can handle it!)
    • Over the past several years there have been a great number of ONBEs given out. There have been a great less, but still great, number of Royal Warrants given out. Of these that have been given out, and for the purpose they were given for, half of them either are no longer in the community, their project fell to the way side or the recieving of said item had nearly everyone raising their brow and going "what?!? Why?!?"
      • A Royal Warrant is given by the royal court to a group of people, business, etc for a job, product, continued performance and a job well done. If the job is no longer being done, the royal warrant should be revoked. For starters.
      • Give people a clear cut path to recieve one. Have you any idea how many times I have been asked "How do i recieve such and such, they are really cool, i want to do something to help but the reward of that would be amazing!" -- I can't answer it, for years those whom i thought deserved waited 3 years to get it, others whom I had no idea why they were getting it raced up and got it. What?!?
    • Community builders, hosts of events, etc.
      • There are a number of people in the community who hold constant amusement for the rest of the community. These people are holding events, lessons, and other various gatherings to keep the player base we have still entertained. These people should be rewarded, on a continuous basis, for the work and effort they put in. If it was not for their various events, there would really be nothing to do.
        • Examples: Lace Delamorte - Without her crafting gatherings, her fishing derbys, etc etc (she does so much) -- We as a community would have nothing to do!
          • NBNN, WRFB, AR, Markee Dragon, Echoes from the Caverns, Community of the Avatar, Kabalyero Kidd, Torgue (the list goes on) -- For the majority your streamers who care enough about trying to get presence of the game out there are doing so with their free time, their best efforts and their desire to bring more awareness to Shroud of the Avatar. Yet, in return what do they get? These people work hard, some of them very hard and make it almost a full time job, to stream and they become the marketing team! They are trying to seriously sell this game via the method they have.. playing it. New players see them, they buy the game, try it out and make up their own minds to stay or play. However, what do these people get for their hours spent doing such?
            • What do i think they should receive? Titles is a cheap and easy start, separates them apart and shows people that they are representing the marketing and play-ability of the game. If they didn't think it was worth it, they wouldn't play it LIVE in front of sometimes HUNDREDS. (For those that are not streaming but are creating events, titles here would work too "Community Event Co-ordinators", "Live Streamer", "DJ",
            • Cloaks - Easy asset that is already created and could just use a different texture to separate them apart from the rest. Here is an idea, a Moon Tower on the back of a cloak, I mean it is the Moon Tower that gets our signal out isn't it? Just a thought.
            • Random gifts to give away - These are also already created and could just be a way to get more attention to the streamer or event coordinator for their time spent. Either gifts to give away or gifts to thank them for their time. (for event coordinators, this could be something to keep in theme with the current event they are doing.. example: Duke Greagoir and the welcome quest torch/sword.. Great idea! Why isn't this a thing for others?)
    3) Skills - Many have mentioned this and given all thoughts on what I could have said about this as well. However, I am amongst those who believe that having everything GM'd is a great goal, it really isn't community driven or beneficial. It makes sense for an offline game, but for a community it makes the multiplayer a solo experience. Why do i need anyone or anything else if i can do it all myself? Skill cap us.. Please!


    Those are my biggest so far. And being one who has spent more then 7 THOUSAND hours in the game (since it hit steam, not to mention the HUNDREDS before it went on steam), I might have a small insight into what I have felt to be missing. I will leave it there for now, but I have so much more I could be writing that it is going to take a year just to get it all out. Shroud is an okay game, it has the potential to be a great game! But it just needs some TLC in spots that it has needed it for the past 3+ years. I am not asking for new content, I am not asking for new items or except in the way of combat asking for any changes at all. I am asking to work with what is already there and having it work to be so much more.

    Also... please heed this for the future.. including well into EP2 and onward. Scope Creep is a thing... Listen to us, listen to what the players are requesting and what we see and what we like and what we don't like.. BUT!!!! Do not listen to us and give us things just because we say we want them. Continue the path that Richard saw.. go back to the vision he saw and wanted before Scope Creep destroyed his vision and gave us what we have today. I may stand alone, or others may stand with me, but I personally do not believe that we have nearly anything currently what Richard dreamed up in 2012. Scope Creep got in the way and changed what could have been to what is, and it is the killer of businesses, it is the destroyer of worlds, it will make a great idea, worthless, if the great idea is no longer in sight.

    Do i blame the Devs? Nope. Do I blame the story tellers? Nope. Want to know who I blame if I had to blame anyone (And I do not blame anyone but it is the only fitting word I can find at the moment) ... I blame myself, I blame everyone in this post, I blame everyone reading this post who hasn't yet spoke up but are considering it, I blame.... the players (Yes I feel the pitchforks entering my skin, it is okay, I can take it!).
    5 years ago we were given an idea that Richard Garriott had for a game he wanted to create, a successor to Ultima and all that we loved about it. Over the past 5 years we players have driven the people at Portalarium nuts with our requests and wants and "we need" this , that they finally caved in and gave it to us. Now that we have it, we do not want it. Now that we directed them in the direction we wanted to go, it isn't the vision Richard Garriott had and we are blaming them for it. Nope, sorry, we can blame ourselves.

    Many say "They do not listen to us", Oh they listen , they read everything and listen, they try to give us what we ask for , and like spoiled brats we whine even louder because it isn't "exactly" what we wanted. It isn't what we were promised in the beginning, it isn't this, it isn't that, it never is enough.

    How about this, how about we players do exactly what even I did, we write down what it is that is bothering us... then we sit back and wait.. let them put it all together and let THEM make the game THEY wanted to make in the beginning and stop telling them what else to make.. If you want a game that you can do that with.. make it! But if we keep telling them "do this" , "do that", then we are the reason we are not enjoying what we are getting.

    Even myself, I mentioned what I do not like and what I do like, however I hope they will read it but "not" take it as anything more then a suggestion and continue making what THEY want to make.

    I know right now I am going to be once again one of the least liked people in the community. If i didn't stir the pot and put it in a perspective that was true and honest, I wouldn't be me. I have taken this roller coaster enough times to be able to ride it again without an issue. If you want to be mad at me, shun me, or throw fireballs at me, have at it. But at the end of the day, I will stand my ground ... We players are the fault for this game not being what it was supposed to be... and it will be we players who continue to be the ones that make it so if we do not allow Portalarium and those who remain to build the game THEY wanted to in the first place. Stop Scope Creeping and tossing more and more at them to do.. and just let them do it.

    In the end, we will have the best game we can have because Richard is an amazing builder of worlds, creator of games and honestly.. If i can say I have faith in the direction of Lord British... I'm fairly certain others can to. So, let him do it!

    Think positive, be positive, and wait, impatiently patient. . I have not lost faith in Shroud, 7 thousand hours later, I shall move forward.. even with the crappy (sorry Chris, sorry, i just really don't like it at all.. but that is my opinion, don't let my opinion scope creep into what it could and is supposed to be) combat system to my 10 thousand hours played!
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  4. Floors

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    Well, I've seen Golden homes in the game so some people went for it. I'd just say do another kickstarter. I mean you were able to kickstart this with like, no team and no real idea how the game was gonna work and you made it happen, so now that you do have experience and a team, you might be able to get more money.

    I mean on Indie-go-go, the zombie company FKA Atari raised 3 million dollars for a box that is vaporware, has only 2600 games that are already widely available for free or 15 dollars and a hastily scrapped together ad campaign showing basicaly NOTHING... I know we could do better than that. Double dip ! why not.

    At least kickstarter gets you in front of people. I know many people still don't even know about this game.
     
  5. Alleine Dragonfyre

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    Ha! Thanks for your support :D Oh, and about that "whale" thing. I love this game so much, I, too am a Governor now. <3 That doesn't change how I feel about the fairness issue RMT brings to the game and how it is effecting our numbers. But, I don't want to rapid fire a bunch of stuff on people all at once.
     
  6. 2112Starman

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    Its not ageism if its true. If I say "millennials are not playing this game" and its backed up by fact, its not ageism except in the context of a hyper politically correct environment.

    I do find it funny that a younger person would cry ageism... lol... try being in IT and looking for a job after the age of 40 (or *any* job at the age of 50).
     
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  7. Alleine Dragonfyre

    Alleine Dragonfyre Avatar

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    Again, with the assumptions. I am not that young. Edit to add: you do realize the majority of the gaming demographic is under 40, right, and that they make up for a majority portion of the MMO playerbase?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  8. Floors

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    I remember being at HobLoth and an ONBE was being handed out. I remember hearing disgruntled feelings about it back then. Personally, I don't feel that way, but it does have a negative effect sometimes of making some people feel more superior than others and other people feeling annoyed by it.

    I'm not sure the practice should continue TBH. Maybe grandfather people in.
     
  9. Amber Raine

    Amber Raine Community Ambassador (FR)

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    I hear this and partially agree but will have to accept to agree to disagree in part as well. I believe the idea is a good one, it helps people "want" to do more then just play the game that is put in front of them. It helps and warrants a desire to bring more to the game, yet, it only works if implemented accurately and accordingly.

    I was one of the first ONBEs, AR was one of the first Royal Warrant holders, and I was the first CNBE. If I ever stopped doing what I do. If Avatars Radio every closed and we stopped doing what we were given the Royal Warrant for, we should no longer have it. We aren't working on it, we shouldn't get to keep it.

    However, I do not feel it is right to say "Nope, we are a special group and you never have a chance to get it". Thing with that is this, it keeps that "seperation" of people in place. That is already something this community suffers with enough. "Whales" (dislike that word), "Favoritism" (also another word I dislike), "Elitists", the list goes on. These words are brought up because they are given life "To" be brought up.

    Everyone should have the ability to get it, but it should be awarded accordingly to what it really is meant for and removed just as quickly.

    I was part of the college of Arms... College of Arms no longer as it was exists.. yet they still hold a Royal Warrant.. why?

    I could give you a list of people who I personally think should get an ONBE for work beyond comparison they have done to shine a light of hope and positiivity upon the community, and yet they have not. Why? while others have who do little to impact the game or the community... why?

    I think it is a good thing to strive for, I just think it needs to be reviewed and tended to accordingly.
     
  10. sake888

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    Then this is a fundamental flaw that has proven to be far too expensive performance wise.
     
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  11. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Oops, I misunderstood what Alleine was referring to. I thought she was referrring to when they spoke about the money they spent on advertising that they themselves admitted they never saw.
     
  12. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    Yup, this has been my biggest complaint with combat. I never really liked the deck system TBH, it always came across as clunky and extremely non-intuitive. So when they introduced the locked deck, I thought things would be better. Well, it was in some ways allowing me to actually view combat, but I soon realized that it was significantly weaker than stacking. I agree that combat really needs another once over. People have been saying this for years. Perhaps it is too late, I truly hope it isn't, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the future of the game. Things HAVE to change because you are right Amber, the game is decent at best and does not live up to what WE ALL know it could be!
     
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  13. Floors

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    It is too late, I hate to say it, but changing the entire combat system ? Now with a skeleton crew ? Not gonna happen.

    They need to focus on what they are doing, making enemies more interesting and varied, probably they should try to make the character models look appealing, and fix the bugs at least. There are so many bugs.
     
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  14. Hornpipe

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    There are some simple solutions that could be tested that don't need a complete revamp and that could mitigate (at least, partly) the problem that most people complain about.
     
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  15. Amber Raine

    Amber Raine Community Ambassador (FR)

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    Again, i am not saying "get rid of it".. .but stop punishing us for which way we choose to play. Ever since my medical issues have made it so i am, at best, one handed, being punished for having to use locked decks seems unfair. Easy fix without having to redo or revamp.. Take away the "benefits" that "rotating" gets... or "Remove the negatives" that locked gets.. Just balance it.. Continue to give people a choice.. but in the end, does it really matter what way they play?

    It goes back to the list and viewable inventory .. give people the decision.. granted.. they took that choice away but it was there.. and it made it nice for each person who used it to get to choose.

    Doesn't mean serious changes.. just a little tweak to the code that gives or takes away negative/positive bonuses.
     
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  16. Rook Strife

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    A proper combat system is already in game. Just needs to be worked on.

    Originally, you used to have a choice between using a drawn glyph deck or locked glyph cooldown.

    They got rid of the locked glyph cooldown (which is the system you see in most mmo's), in favor of heat / drawn glyph.


    It would be easy to reinstate the old system.

    The problem is getting all the dmg / cooldown numbers right.


    You put the proper numbers in and it would not even seem like the same game.

    Probably the simplest and most impactful improvement to the game they could make.
     
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  17. blaquerogue

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    adding to this, a lot of us were UO fans off the bat we played it relentlessly, then our kids got interested in what Dad or Mom were doing they got involved, and loved it as well, I am well above 30, ive played pretty much all of RG games UO to Planetside and ive enjoyed it! I think I played one ultima game, but I still liked UO better. Just because im above 30 doesn't mean I don't like to game or im not hardcore at it, it means ive seen the failures and the best up to 2018! (even Richard Garriott makes mistakes its human nature) I think most of us older folks know what we are talking about since we have played RPGs/MMO longer than the millennials. We don't want it to be a retirement home game, we want it to be exciting! like it was in the past! So much is wrong with this game right now! it doesn't mean it cant be fixed! Is port willing to make changes based on its players (actual ones that still play this game) not ones that leave come back in half a year. We are the ones you should be listening too since we still play this mess!

    This is just my opinion here so don't get it twisted - Older people like in depth stories (quests) younger people like action and on the edge of your seat type play! Some like both (me) although I click through everything until i come to the keyword I need! the rest is boring to me it doesn't engage me at all! My simple fix is... make a good quest line with good rewards that doesn't take hours to do, speed up combat, adjust damage based on weapon vs. armor (example: If I hit you with a 2 handed hammer unless you have a magical shield up that cloth or leather you wearing is useless, a long sword is not going to do much damage to someone in plate, A Hammer will, but that sword wont! If im in plate and you hit me with fire spells guess what?... metal is a great conductor of heat/lightening etc...., if hit with cold spells it becomes brittle and take more damage upon impact, leather catches fire and burn eventually melts to skin, cloth just goes "foom" up in flames. This is what makes combat BS in this game it makes no sense!

    basically who cares what age range plays this make it enticing to all for their different reasons! (listening to your actual players that play the game can help out a lot!)
     
  18. Floors

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    You literally just advocated for cloth, leather and plate (??) to be immune to hammers, so I'm not sure I can get behind all that. Nor do I want this game to turn into PUBG or Fortnite so today's ADD generation can get their jollies.

    I do think some things could be improved, like character design, the mobs are pretty lame atm and do lame things...fix that first before getting into massive and continous combat revamps
     
  19. blaquerogue

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    honestly the main problem ( I do like your post up to a certain point) is the Devs listened to the wrong people for the wrong reasons $$$$$. which are the few considering the other half of that populace! I forgive them! now just make the game better! It would be much easier to hear f-you from the devs im making what I want to make instead of empty promises, I could've accepted that better and still supported it. I do now even though it sucks! Devs make your game listen to our input, try it if it doesn't work wipe it and try another way. The main thing is listen to the people in general who actually play the game in the midst of the mess we have now! If that's not dedication to this game I don't know what is!
     
  20. Amber Raine

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    I disagree completely.. not even just in part.. absolutely 100% completely disagree. Because.. they did not listen to only people with $$$ they listened to "everyone".

    The problem is they listened to the people and allowed for the players to create the game instead of allowing themselves to make the game they wanted to. They got so scope creeped by each and every player that wanted this , that, or the other thing done, put in, changed until it became what it is that is no where near the vision Richard had.

    And again, every one of the players is in this.... money or not...

    Question me, please I welcome it.. question how "I" know they listened to people with very little to any financial backing. It might just shock you.
     
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