I'll start flagging for pvp when the following is true...

I'll start flagging for pvp when the following is true...

1. You can no longer choose to pay the ransom on body parts (skulls, jaw bones, hands). There's no reason to allow people to do this. The whole reason I want to pvp is to get those items.

2. When players are forced to risk SOMETHING. I don't want to fight people that can't lose anything they care about. There should be a monetary requirement to flag for pvp. If you don't have items worth X amount, then you can't flag, period. Or, if someone doesn't have twice as much gold then they shouldn't be able to flag. That way everyone flagged for pvp is risking the same amount of stuff.

3. All scenes have multiple entrances and exits, or if that's not fitting (like in Owl's Head) then you get a longer invulnerability timer that allows you to get into the scene without being spawn camped.

4. All towns have NPC guards that can kill any player, and POTs have the option to have guards. Guards also protect people from being stolen from while within the same proximity. Guards should be placed near spawn points to help prevent spawn camping. Guards should have a KOS list that works based off of the past actions of players and helps prevent repeat offenders from being comfortable in the town.

5. Special scenes are developed that promote the option of looking for a fair fight. For example, I'd like to see 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 scenes, etc...where you knew you could get a fair fight and not be outnumbered. Sandbox shouldn't mean gankbox by default.

It's a very simple concept to understand too. If you're going to play a football game, you don't line up with 11 people against 1 person. No one would want to play that game. No one would want to watch that game. We wouldn't have a National Football League designed in a way where one guy just got the crap kicked out of him by eleven other guys. That would be stupid. So why are we doing that here?

Selective Multiplayer is a good thing, but only if we're using it to make the game more fair and balanced. To accomplish this, we really need to look for ways to make both modes of play fun but not selectively "better" than the other modes.

EDIT: 6. Moving from flagged to unflagged (even if returning to a non-pvp area) needs a cool down. A significant cool down that requires the player to be online for the full time of the cool down. What this also means is that once you flag (anywhere) you can no longer go into Friends or Single Player mode until the cool down has expired.

 

Any further details on how #5 can be pull off without creating a scene that has number of players and team restrictions?

 

Yes I agree great idea and should have neeve been allowed those are trophies and do not harm the loser.

But his si not what some of the PvPer want they want loot all . . .

Yes yes and YES already brought up this point it is fixed for Shardfalls eneds to be all scenes if they cannot make it just for those who flag.

Guards are supposed to have some funcftions but I fear they are so far off and will just be another broken mechanics let it go.

Sorry but extremely difficult - Arenas are built if they could set up so you can set wagers and restrictions before entering sure but I do not see this as easy and since the game is so far from being done not somthign I would encourage even oen minute or 1 penny spent on until the rest is done.

 

Good question.

I think the best example I can give is player captured control points. Right now you can have 100's of people in a single control point. This means that large guilds could win (pvp control points - something that could exist in the future) by default. But what if you made several winning conditions. One winning condition might look something like this...



While others might be more organic.

 

I don't think this is very difficult at all.

Take Deep Ravenswood for example. Are you familiar with that little spider cave? What if that was a 1v1 area? What if when you entered into that cave it put you in another "cave" scene and matched you up with a single player? Seems very simple to me. 2 enter, 1 leaves. To make this a compelling scene though, you'd have to give it some meaning, some reason for entering in the first place without the reason being "pvp for the sake of pvp". That can be done.

We could also give players the ability to set up 1v1 ambushes on the overland map.

 

Arenas should be fairly easy. Treat them as non-PVP scenes, but have two flagging items. These could be pillars, books, or even pavers like in the challenge points. Using these will flag you PVP and assign you to one of the teams. These only work for a certain number of people, or even require even numbers on each team (won't flag a forth person on one team until there are three on the other).

 

We got team vs team arenas ingame and look how interesting they seem to be And they could be exploited easily just like they were in other games. With such a low player base its not a good idea IMHO.

 

2. There is no game that I am aware of that requires any monetary requirement to flag PVP, if you desire to flag, you just do. You would be asking for the risk on the killers part to be removed so they have a assured return on a kill. So this would be like PVE players asking for RNG to be removed and they be granted a standard gold amount of loot for each kill. Folks may say well PVP is different, but when you start making requirements of a monetary amount to flag, you will basically kill PVP anyway. You can't encourage it by making it harder for those who want to try but can't meet certain gold objectives.

5. In many games this is called a battle ground, which is something you queue up for by yourself, with friends or a guild. Either way for this to be in the game will bring up a entirely new thing for the developers to work on. And personally, I think this isn't needed. Let me be clear, I flagged myself every time I went to the Virtue League when I was in Chaos Caverns for EVL's Virtue League, even tho I wasn't fighting. That is the only time I ever flagged. Not because I am "afraid" of dying, that is not my thing in Shroud, nor why I play. What I want to do in this game has zero to do with PVP.
For many years I played Warcraft and I PVP'd for all of them. I first started out on a PVP server, which meant you could get in a battle at the drop of a hat. On a PVP server, there was no "I am not going to flag for PVP today", unless you rolled a character on a non PVP server. If a guild member was ganked by the Alliance, the entire guild dropped what they were doing and went to their aid. We had battles as a result that could last for 2-4 hours, just because they got jumped and could not complete a quest.
So I have zero sympathy for point number 5, if you choose to flag for a 25% XP bonus, or for any other reason, you risk being killed, by 1-8 players. This is exactly how it should be. If people want to PVP and not risk being jumped by multiple people, set up a basement arena.

Everyone of these points are "We want our cake and eat it to" if we flag. It is beyond reason to say we need all these special considerations for flagging PVP. The killing at entrances to a scene, yes I have seen it in Owl's Head before. One person getting ganked by 3 players, yes I've seen it before before. From the PVP world I have known for years, it was one faction vs another faction, but it's all the same to me. It's like I used to tell Warcraft players all the time, "If you are going to PVP, get ready to die, get your feelings hurt, get mad, get frustrated,get ganked and if you can't live with that, stay on the porch and watch."

 

Id rather see Arenas and Brawls organized by guilds than be part of gameplay itself. I however would love something that puts guilds into war and rewards the winner and all participants of such a war.

 

If there's no reward, there's no risk. That makes PVP meaningless. I don't want meaningless pvp. If that means no one will pvp, that's better than having it mean nothing, imo.

You're missing the point.

No one plays PVP so they can lose over and over again. No one plays and says "I can't wait to be ganked". What you and others fail to understand is that pvp is dead on arrival if the only options to participate are the unfair kind. If open pvp gankage was so popular then Shadowbane wouldn't be dead. Darkfall wouldn't be dead. You'd be playing another game right now that involved open no restriction full loot pvp and you'd never think twice about being here. It's absurd to think that the last 20 years of gaming history has spelled out anything other than people don't PVP if they have to take on all the risk and get very little reward for doing so. The people that want to have their cake and eat it to are the ones doing the ganking, and yeah, they don't want any of things I'm listing in the OP because that prevents a lot what allows them to have maximum rewards with minimum risk.

 

I am missing the point, you are right then. I am failing to see if anyone gets outnumbered, what is their guild doing about it? What are their friends doing about it?

 

Darkfall died because there was huge exploiting and the devs covered it. You could one shot dragons etc and get so much infernal gear that it didn't matter if you died. Darkfall in the end failed commercially because the devs never really developed it further. Darkfall 2 was an improvement but lacked a lot of features and they again stopped developing. People left because sieges meant nothing... and why build a city if you cannot do anything with it besides looking at it...

 

Perhaps people that don't want to have friends and guilds should also be viable in pvp?

I would suggest that just because other games make guilds absolutely necessary for survival we don't have to follow in their foot steps.

I would also suggest that if a person needs friends in pvp, they're not very good at it.

 

Make so when you flag for PvP at the oracle you also need to choice one more more items that you will risk losing (the PvP inventory?)

When A kills B.

• If A and B both risked similar value (in their PvP inventory). A gets everything B risked
• If A hardly risked anything, he will hardly get anything of what B risked

You can't initiate PvP combat vs someone that risks a lot more than yourself.

IF you steal anything it should go into your PvP inventory

----
As for NvN i would suggest it would be possible to setup a ambush in a scene
And if a pvp flagged group of similar strength passes the scene they gets dragged in.

 

Guards will never happen because it would make pick pocketing useless. You have the right to turn pvp off while in town while afking.

As a heavy pvper its not true that you are ganked in numbers a lot, or even often. Its mostly 1v1. When you stay after you kill someone, then they call their friends.

For me making a monetary minimum to pvp would throw people off to pvp at all. Right now the reward in pvp is keeping that zone to yourself for exp gains, and possible ransoms money. I agree with your body parts idea. Thats a good one

3. All scenes have multiple entrances and exits, or if that's not fitting (like in Owl's Head) then you get a longer invulnerability timer that allows you to get into the scene without being spawn camped. Yes, this

 

i would like a single pvp scene that did not involve looting and prevented grouping or flagged everyone as being able to take dmg from everyone else.

currently there is nothing that really makes me want to flag for pvp it just seems like a hassle. i did shardfalls for a bit and replacing my gear was annoying when i just wanted to go out and fight some. i like lootable pvp btw not saying i dont want it but sometimes you just want to fight and not worry about having to replace your crap after each death.

yeah i could go buy unlootable gear... thats even more unappealing to me tho.

 

imho, this isn't possible unless you restrict yourself to duels in arenas. Once you step out into the wild, anything goes. And if you're good enough to take on gank groups by yourself- you're going to attract a following. Which is by itself a defacto guild.

 

What's not possible about it?

I don't think we have to use duels and arenas. I would suggest that the world we create can have areas (some might call them arenas but I would not go that far) where travel is prohibited by huge groups. For example, there could be control points where a secret passage exists that only 2 people can be in at a time, and only one person can exit at a time (meaning they have to fight the other person and kill them before they can get out). That ensures that a 1v1 match occurs and that you can't get ganked. It also has meaning because it is linked to overland map travel and may vary well circumvent an area of the map that is controlled by hostile players.

 

"I'll start flagging for pvp when the following is true..."

+50% of pvpers do not behave like ruthless robbers greedy for battles, xp and kills and are mostly powergamers who don't want a challenging fight but overwhelming self-adulation !

...so never

 

"2. When players are forced to risk SOMETHING. I don't want to fight people that can't lose anything they care about. There should be a monetary requirement to flag for pvp. If you don't have items worth X amount, then you can't flag, period. Or, if someone doesn't have twice as much gold then they shouldn't be able to flag. That way everyone flagged for pvp is risking the same amount of stuff."

You really gotta start flagging for PVP.

The death penalty in this game is less than pleasant, but it's manageable and an acceptable risk while learning how to PVP.

• I wear gear that can't be looted
• I use weapons that can't be looted
• I unstack everything in my inventory so if/when I do get looted the impact of loss on my continued participation in PVP is negligible (if at all). And because of this mitigation, my losses are very, very minimal - so I get to stay in the game and continue to learn, train, and experience PVP. Eventually I'll hit a wall and have to invest in crafted armor and crafted weapons to be competitive; but for now, I'm learning PVP and advancing my PVP game on my terms.

Some friendly advice from one of the sheep... You shouldn't wait too long before you start flagging. Eventually, we sheep are going to become great at PVP and all the gankers and PKers are going to find themselves spending all their time grinding in SPO to pay their Oracle ransoms.