Kotaku article with Richard Garriott interview infos

Yet Lum said that the offline mode would not get other or different quests from the online mode which essentially will lead to an offline MMORPG and who needs that? Such a game doesn't make sense. And it wouldn't be fun. Would Everquest or WoW make sense if it would be an offline game?

 

1. This KS campaign was made for ep1, not for ep1 - ep5. Therefore the promises could made for ep1 only!
   
2. Do you really think the already written story becomes more like the story in U5 - U7 when the story is written further? Do you think Port will rewrite the existing story?

 

A game should be great from the beginning. It should grip me, excite me, immerse me and make me want to play more.
Why should I suffer through hours and hours of a boring game in the hopes that maybe episode 4 will be better?

 

Don't need 5 episodes or books. If it is good, it will grip you at page 1. Just look at games of thrones. Every book is a page turner.

 

I would like to clarify one thing. My complaints about the state of the story and the offline mode are not directed against @Lum the Mad . I know Lum is working very hard and I know that he isn't responsible for the direction and the focus the development took.

 

One other thing. I did invest more than $1600 in the development of this game. I am well aware there are other people who invested ten thousands of dollars in SotA. But keep in mind that I'm only interested in the story and in the offline mode. I did this because I have a deep emotional relationship to the Ultima series and the work of @Lord British / Richard Garriott. I did it because I have had faith in the promises of the KS campaign.

So I ask all the MMO sandbox lovers who invested big money in the game, would you have invested $1600 if the focus would lies clearly on the single player offline and story aspects? I hope you can now more appreciate my 'small' share in the development of this game. But mostly I hear only that my expectations are too high and that I'm too inflexible

 

So lets take a look at the Kickstarter "promises" and what has become of them:

1. Shroud of the Avatar is infused with rich storylines, deeply integrated into game play, developed by Best Selling Author Tracy Hickman and RPG legend Richard Garriott.

There are storylines by Richard and Tracy in the game, how "rich" they are, we will see.

2. Players will adventure in an interactive world where their choices have consequences, ethical paradoxes give them pause, and they play a vital part in weaving their own story into the immersive world and lore surrounding them.

Errr, no? Where are those choices with consequences? Haven't seen one.

3. Shroud of the Avatar is a Selective Multiplayer game, allowing players to choose how they want to play! Whether in Single-Player Offline mode or any of three online modes, the main quest line will provide greater than 40 hours of focused, story driven content.

Technically yes. Still, offline mode is laughable. Single Player offline should not just be an offline MMORPG, because such a game mode simply doesn't make sense and is not fun. And if there really are 40 hours of story-driven content remains to be seen.

4. Shroud of the Avatar can be played as an offline DRM free solo experience or online, where our servers will enable player to player transactions, group finding, patching, streaming of dynamic content, and exploit prevention.

Yes, seems to be the case.

5. Built using the Unity Game Engine, Shroud of the Avatar will support Win/Mac/Linux for official launch.

Yes, this is right.

6. Players can specialize in a wide range of combat and non-combat skills, provided by a robust, classless skill system, and full-featured crafting and housing mechanics. Play the way you want to play, molding your character into the hero, anti-hero, or artisan you want to be!

Hmm, not so sure about this one. Without combat it doesn't seem that one can accomplish much. But let's say it is possible somewhat.

7. Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtue is the first of a 5 game series of full-length, stand-alone games (each using the same game system), referred to as Episodes 1 through 5. Estimated availability of Episode 1, Forsaken Virtues, is October 2014, with Episodes 2 through 5 estimated for subsequent yearly releases.

Aside from the release date (2014 - muahahaha) this may be the case.

8. Shroud of the Avatar is a “buy-to-play” game that, once purchased, does not require a subscription to play!

Yes, that is the case.


So, let's take a look at some other things mentioned during the Kickstarter:

"tell a story even more compelling than Ultimas IV-VII"

Hmm, this may be subjective but at least for me, no this is not the case.

"create a virtual world more interactive than Ultima VII"

Definitely not the case.

"develop deep rich multi-player capabilities beyond combat akin to Ultima Online"

Combat seems to be the focus and everything else is somewhat possible

"bold new approach to integrate them with “Selective Multi-Player”

Which has been the cause for a lot of trouble - People farming in SPO, others not being able to meet other players etc, Doesn't seem to work that well.

"a fantasy role-playing game that will focus more on player choices and discovery than on level grinding."

No, definitely not. Grinding is one of the most important things of this game. Exploring some scenes is not even possible without having grinded so that we can survive there.

"Meaningful PVP that also minimizes griefing: An incentive-driven system will draw players into the challenge and intrigue of the PVP experience, whether they become the hunter or the hunted!"

Basically yes, although "meaningful" is up for debate.

"Fully interactive virtual world - If it looks usable, it should do something"

No, definitely not the case.

"Deep original fiction - Ethical parables, cultural histories, fully developed alternate language text"

Yes, that is in the game.

"Physical game components will be available: Cloth map, fictional manuals, trinkets"

No, at least not yet.

"Multiplayer Online Game - which can also be played solo player / offline"

Hmm, technically yes. But the solo Player / offline part is underdeveloped and simply not fun at all.

"Though Shroud of the Avatar won’t be a massively multiplayer online role playing game, it will be a multiplayer game."

No, this game is definitely an MMORPG.


On to the two (in)famous Videos in which Richard Talks to Warren Spector and Starr Long (not yet on the team during this time) about what Shroud of the Avatar will be:

"What I'm hoping we can do is to create a story-driven soloplayer experience that harkens back to somewhere between Ultima 4 and Ultima 7 but that also has the ability to play online"

"When I describe the game to people: a story-driven basically soloplayer experience akin to Ultima 4,5,6 and 7, a world interactability that is similar to Ultima 7, and the wonderful non-combat roles and persistent virtual world of Ultima Online."

I don't kow what game Richard described here but it can't be the game we play now. The soloplayer experience takes the backset and basically is non existant except for the fact that you can play alone which is not fun at all. The interactability of Ultima 7? Haven't seen this yet in the game. But online is the focus. So what he should have described would have been: A MMORPG that also has the ability to play offline with some story in there.


So for me, what was said during Kickstarter and what we now got as a game is very different from each other.

 

Why is everyone always going back to the KS? That thing is like 4 years old. I'm sure it had good ideas at the time, but this is now 2017 and things change. Money situation has changed, player wants have changed, and the market has changed.

I just see these KS things really hurting SoTA. It was also said that the person who made most of these ones they can't do, shortly left the company afterwards. So he probably did it to sabotage Portalarium.

 

Simply because they got money for the things they mentioned back then. You can't tell people that they will get something, collect money for it and then change everything.

You can't offer people a Porsche, collect their money and then deliver a Daihatsu because some people think this would be better.

 

Because the KS promises were the reason why I did spend my money!

 

People pledged hundreds or thousands of dollars apiece to get what was in those ks promises. Contrary to your assertion, their wants are the same as they have always been.

And those ks things that they "can't do" :/ are stretch goals... A strong single player game was never a stretch goal. It was the guiding tenet of the kick starter. And no matter what you think, without the kick starter there would be no SotA. 4 years should make no difference.

 

As long as it is Porsche(ish) I don't see a problem. The person who made those KS promises that trouble is with, isn't even working for Portalarium. They left shortly afterwards. Which makes me conclude that it was most likely a setup to begin with.

The devs are trying really hard to produce a wonderful game but they need to have their chains unbound. They need to have open full reign to create the MMO that makes the money with their add on store. You can't sell add on items in a single player game like you can on an MMO.

So why not wait for the single player KS items until after the game is launched?

 

In the industries I'm working it is common to fill a vacancy.

 

Having played EQ and UO on offline emulators, yes its still fun.

Some of these are in, and others are being built. This is readily apparent if you have the Virtue Cloak and can tell when your karma changes, but you can find other places to see this as well. Give the beggar lady some money in Ardoris, and her text (and the person who asks you to help her) both change. Rescue the girl from the fire, and her mother in Soltown is happy. Etc. It seems like its lacking now, but the core story isn't even fully in place yet, but there should be many more once they start adding side content.

Technically nothing; there are multiple modes available, and far more than 40 hours of content. Just because you don't like that offline mode has few unique features doesn't make this false. Nothing in here says the offline mode will be unique (except that it wont require an online connection).

Availability is not completion. Release 1 was December 2013, and players could already access the game. By the end of 2014, Release 13, it was already on Steam. Sounds like this was accomplished early. The only questionable this in that statement is the "subsequent yearly releases" of additional Episodes, although that is noted as estimated.

 

The more the game becomes a MMO the less it can be a single-player game.
Even now we have so many MMO mechanics that SotA doesn't feel like a SP game.

Also the game was not meant to be a MMO as was clearly said during the Kickstarter campaign.

Taking the money, not sticking to the "promises" and delivering a different game not only damages the reputation of Portalarium (I will not back another Kickstarter from them) but also the reputation of Kickstarter as less players are likely to back other projects in fear of not getting the game that is described.

 

Exactly!

 

Maybe they could sell quests and stories in the add on store then for you single players. Something has to generate money for the game. And that's where I don't like focus on the SP

But if they sold quests and stories on the add on store I'm down!

 

This is ridiculous. The story was part of the KS promises! And I have already supported this game with $1600!

 

I remember times when selling a game was enough to keep a company going...

Also games like Skyrim, Fallout 4 and the Witcher 3 show that companies can generate lots of money with single-player games.

 

Those days are dead... Single player/fire and forget titles are extinct.

None of these are truly single player games in the old school sense... They don't put the Gold Master on Disk, ship it, go to Bermuda for a couple of weeks at company expense, and then come back and start on the next one.
All of these games are Live Services... with central servers, and periodic updates and new content filling the gap between the initial release and the release of the next iteration.