Making loot better

To follow up on another discussion thread in the forums, I'm compiling this list from ongoing suggestions I've made in the past across other threads.

I don't think better loot is 'the key' to making the game fun, but I think there's a lot that can be done to make the loot more interesting in the game. This always has to be balanced in a way that doesn't take value away from crafting, but I think if its well thought out that can be done.

MORE ARTIFACTS.

Definitely, the more artifacts in the game, the better.

This includes both low-end and high-end artifacts. So, for instance, it makes sense that low-end artifacts are easier to find than high-end artifacts -- which should be rare and hard to find -- but there are some low-end artifacts that are extremely common, like Rings of Luck and Pax Rings, and over time, a player will build a stockpile of them. In storage, I currently have 33 Rings of Luck, 34 Rings of Greater Luck, and 28 Pax Rings. But instead of having roughly 100 rings that split into 3 types, it would be better if you would end up with 100 rings of at least maybe 50 types, or even 100 types.

This would makes even the low-end artifacts more valuable, because they're more unique. Even if you don't want them, other players might, even those who just want to collect them. For the high-end artifacts, it would make individual artifacts even rarer, because there would be a large selection for generating the loot tables. This would create a big market for exchange.

RECYCLING ARTIFACTS INTO THE CRAFTING SYSTEM.

Artifacts are also interesting when you can use them in crafting, which is what makes the Warlock Chain/Mystic Chain interesting, because it requires you to collect a set of artifacts for crafting and creates a quest of its own.

However, I think even simpler things can be done. So for instance, we have the Shard of Night, which is a dagger with moon magic. As we get more orbs in the game, what about not only finding the dagger as loot, but also being able to craft a dagger from the orb? Then we could do the same with other orbs, so for instance, have a Shard of Vrul, crafted from the Heart of Vrul, which is a Chaos magic dagger, made by splintering the orb. There could also be other ways of "extracting" the magic from certain artifacts and adding them to other things. Or, on the other side of things, "adding" magic or masterworking to artifacts so they can be enhanced by crafters and resold.

So, for example, I once proposed a mechanic for artifact re-forging (in this thread here.) A rough version of it is that you could salvage particular "essences" from artifacts, for instance an "Essence of Fire" (from a "Teine" Ring) or "Essence of Luck" (from a Ring of Luck), and then craft new artifacts from them using recipes and following a difficult process.

Two diagram from that linked thread, which goes into some detail,



This would also be good for crafters.

An artifact re-forging system would give artifacts the same role as player crafted discards showing up in drops, if the rare artifacts remain rare. For example, if you have a rare artifact that is actually good as far as gear goes, players would also potentially be able to craft that artifact from scratch using through breaking down other artifacts or reagents, as described in that thread. That would make it always more common to find that magical item enchanted by a player than found in the wild.

SUPPLY BUNDLES WITH ROLE-PLAY FLAVOR.

Giving supply bundles RP flavor and tailoring them to the enemy that's dropping them would also be good, so you have miner's bundles, reagent bundles, food/rations bundles etc.

In another thread (here), I suggested these bundles,

Miner's bundle - chance of ores, gems, and mining tools (found on kobold, satyr miners)
Food bundle - chance of different food rations - (found on all humanoids)
Herb bundle - chance of healing reagents and potions - (found on elf healers)
Reagent bundle - chance of variety of reagents - (found on mages)
Cannibal's bundle - chance of "special" types of food - (found on Grannus wildmen)
...etc.

The way you find these would be limited. So, for instance, you might only find things like a 'rolling pins' in something like a "Cook's bundle". Maybe very infrequently on mobs. Certainly nothing an ordinary elf mage would have on him.

Crates and barrels would also commonly have certain kinds of supply bundles like food bundles, miner's bundles if they were placed in mines, etc. If certain housewares are impossible to steal from NPCs anymore without alerting the guards, and we don't have crafting recipes for them yet, it would be nice to find more of them in crates in certain areas. Barrels would be more for food bundles, since they're for food storage, while crates other supplies, like miner's bundles in mines.

Then, if you're not interested in a certain kind of bundle at all, you can either just leave it and not pick it up, or, if you take it, it would then be easier to manage it in your inventory, or sell it. There would be the advantage of "cleaning up" mob drops, so players don't have their backpacks fill up with random cleavers, pots, kettles, spatulas, but instead these would just end up in bundles until you open them. One of the nice things about bundles is they're "clean", they're bags that dispose themselves once you open them. In fact, as a separate issue, I think it would be nice if players could create their own bundles to put on vendors. Say, put a set of armor together in a bundle, which wouldn't need a real container like a bag that the buyer needs to dispose of after purchase.

If supply bundles aren't going to be like crates in other MMOs that you unlock by purchasing a key in add-on, then at least add RP value to them. It not just helps immersion, but also makes them more interesting and more fun for players.

MORE, AND MORE EXOTIC, MAT DROPS.

There are still areas in the game where more exotic mat drops should exist, but the devs hadn't gotten around to putting them in the game last time I checked.

For example, I did a thread once on elemental loot drops (here), where I described possible drops from all of the elementals in the game; ie air (fulgurite), water (gypsum or rock salt), earth (quartz), fire (sulfur), etc.

It would be nice if instead of dropping generic "animal hides," we could get wolf hides, bear hides. This would would also allow things like "obsidian wolf hides," which would be more valuable. These could be used in crafting rugs, rather than the heads.

We currently also have only two types of trees; pine and maple. It would obviously be nice to see more kinds of trees, including special types like ebon-wood and ancient oak.

Opal gems, which are a combination of two or more different gems (and so had a combination of their magic) would be nice also. They would be rarer than the standard gems. Thread here. Also, alloys of different metals.

Ivory, jade, coral, amber, pearl (white), cinnabar, limestone, soapstone, sandstone; a lot of new mat types could also be added.

QUALITY MAT DROPS.

It would still eventually be nice to see quality-rated materials from harvesting, like 'fine hides', 'pure ores', 'flawless gems', etc. While this isn't directly in the category of mob drops (though mobs might have them too), this type of variety will also make the world more interesting.

SHINY OBJECTS, GLITTERING AND GOLD.

We have a lot of rusty and ragged drops, but for certain humanoid creatures, valuables should occasionally drop -- gold items, silver items, gems.

We have the bandit chests, and the drops in the chests are better than they used to be before. But still, gem fragments are kind of useless in those amounts, and it would be nicer to be able to find full gems more often in them. If it were a higher drop rate of full gems than at a mine node, it still would be inefficient compared to mining the gems. Also, for instance, silver goblets used to be a thing until they were no longer lootable and now their price has gone up. But why not put things like silver goblets, gold chalices, etc. occasionally in bandit chests and in their loot? For their bodies, bandit leaders would obviously be more likely to have these things on their person. The loot chests could also occasionally have things like works of art. When wild boars in the game, since their tusks have ivory, maybe we can have some ivory valuables. And white pearl equivalents to black pearls. But even in Etceter Crag Mines the bandit lair has a stash of swag as scene deco, but you can't take any of it.

Human mobs in general can have various paraphernalia relating to what they do. Pirates could occasionally have the craftable versions of pipes or astrolabes, for instance. In that case, it would be rare enough as to not take away from the crafting economy, while still being a prize. Alternatively, you could even rarely include items like COTO purchasable pipes instead of dropping an actual COTO (which, yes, would have to be even rarer than COTO drops since they cost at least 5 COTO). And in this vein, things like pocketwatches, sextants, and compasses would be nice to have in the game eventually, and the last two would function by enhancing the in-game map system. Rarely, a wizard might have a folio of potion recipes rather than a single one, or a pirate a folio of maps (folios are described in a thread here). Bandits of course would have lockpicks when those come in the game.

Even rarer could be "treasure"-type artifact objects based on these valuables. This might include goblets, chalices, drinking-horns, smoking-pipes, lanterns, candles, candlesticks, oil-lamps, censers, combs, bells, masks, mirrors, fans, astrolabes, compasses, sextants, spy-glasses, circlets, crowns, puzzle boxes, music boxes, &c. They would be the same as the normal valuables except magically enchanted, giving them extra value and uniqueness. So you could have a lantern that created magic bonuses in a radius, and so on.

QUEST STARTERS -- MAPS AND JOURNALS.

Pieces of treasure maps would be nice, but I think that would be an appropriate aspect of a much fuller cartography system, and am not sure how they'd do it until cartography comes in the game.

In general, the idea of treasure maps could also be extended to other "quest starters." It would be fun to be able to have quests start not just through interacting with NPCs in adventure zones and towns but a variety of ways. Whether that means running into quest scenarios in random encounters, or finding journals or letters on mobs that you kill.

MOBS USING THE MAGIC GEAR THAT THEY DROP.

We now have discards of player-made gear in loot tables !

However, It would be nice to see this gear actually being used by the mobs. So if a flaming sword is recycled from the player economy, then the mob actually uses the flaming sword and you have to defeat the mob using it before you get it as a prize. Gear that isn't necessarily powerful but made with valuable material, ie. gold armor etc., could always be placed in bandit chests.

Mobs that wield this magic gear can be more predictable sources of drops for that gear. The increased difficulty in defeating the mob justifies the increased predictability. The same as if you were to kill a player in PvP for possibly getting his magic sword.

The same can be true for artifacts; there can be some mobs which use magic artifacts in battle, which increases the predictability of them dropping.

MAKING EXISTING STUFF MORE RELEVANT THAN VENDOR TRASH.

In closing, a few more things I would like to add that are not so much directly, but indirectly related to the topic. If food were more important to use, I would value food drops on mobs more. But currently, I don't even use food because I find it pointless. I don't use potions either, because I just use auto-regen and Healing Touch, so if I could rely less on those, potions would be more valuable drops for me, too. If reagents were necessary for first-tier spells, I'd find those drops more valuable, too, because I only use first and second tier spells. If I couldn't rely on Light, torches might even be valuable for me. The thing that makes most things 'vendor trash' for me is I don't feel a use for them. Give them more of a use and they won't be 'vendor trash' anymore.

 

Daaamm..... nice post!!

People like to find cool and useful items it’s a fact. Some deco stuff is fine and great I also believe we need better useful stuff as well.

Many or most of the artifacts that drop in the game are not good enough to use other than for essence salvage pieces for the two or three actual useful items we have.

 

Hi and thanks for this post. I agree with the OP. The constant cry for more loot, more, more, more has not necessarily helped the loot situation. More loot should be restated to mean interesting loot. So when we call out for more loot lets say more interesting loot. I like the ideas of the OP for improving the quality of loot. New players have said to me that they miss getting magical items in loot even if it is magical loot that has only a few charges. Like a magic wand that shoots fireballs for example

I still think later we should consider loots that have meaning but would also need coding like finding rare eggs that can hatch over time with care into a mount, a special combat pet, or rare pet. Perhaps something in the way you process hatching them effects their stats. I loved finding eggs in Runes of Magic. You found eggs but then again there were special eggs you could purchase on the add on store too of course. I think eventually what we have on the store will be special things like cooler mounts.

Imo we should not stretch goal mounts but just get them in when we can. Hopefully soon though so we can capitalize on the ability to make cool mounts to buy. And don't forget coding them to horse race and jump hurdles which imo is a must. Also in World of Warcraft on event days I remember catching a very special mount which was a giant turtle or something but very cool and unusual, hmmm it has been a while for me of playing that game

Also to never forget the collection quests and achievement items. One day we are suppose to have an in game achievement system and there could be items that are found as we progress through the game and explore the game to achieve some of these tasks.


edited

 

I love most of this but not the idea to 'extract' magic 'essence' from magic objects. Magic objects are just that. A ring that brings you luck is magical but it's the ring that is special and has its history and an unfathomable quality to bring you luck. It isn't a boring old ring with magic sauce poured on it.

For me turning magic objects into harvestable items and magic becoming like oil from pecans destroys the 'magic' and turns magic into a mechanical crafting thing. It also creates a world of potential jarring confusion.

 

One thing is for sure more variety wont fix the current issues . A way needs to be found to recycle the current drops back in the economy in a usefull manner ...artifacts for example it doesnt matter how much more they add ..we will eventually end up having 10-20-30 of em ...they need other purposes then just wearing or salvaging for essence .. my vote is on allowing people to enhance them ...sometimes simple is better ...you have 2 arties same type merge them into 1 and get a + 2 artifact with better stats ... give it a special bonus when it reaches plus 5 and plus 10 .

 

They do something similar with weapons in BDO and its fun and works well. There's a very large market for the basic weapons (+0' +1, +2) as they can be combined for better stats, so never junked, and mid level combines, around +5 sell for good prices.

I'm not suggesting we destroy our player crafted items world, far from it, but for artefacts, such a system could provide really interesting and unique game mechanics and some excitement and anticipation in ALL drop levels.

For this to work maybe we would need another slot or slots on the paper doll for different object types, pouches, sashes, additional jewelery items? If we did this for weapons and people were forging a +15 Staff of the Kraken, weapons crafting would be dead along with a fundimental premise of the game- a player made and player driven economy.

Edit: unless 'combining' or 'reforging' was a masterwork that required skills at appropriate levels and consumables and rare metals.

 

It could be a complicated process involving many different skill trees. In the linked thread, I even suggested it could use Engraving skills from the Scribes skill tree I once suggested, and also obviously, as shown, extraction would require an Alchemy Salvaging.

 

Excellent suggestions. If I may "add" something, which maybe will make wanting to grind, or to level up crafting, or at least make it feel like you were part of the effort of getting gear crafted (aside from gathering actual mats, and instead of just throwing money around): ADORNMENTS. This kind of piggy-backs on your thoughts of MORE EXOTIC MATS, but is something that could both be visually cool (you see it adorn your armor) as well as enhance it more. Sort of like artifacts, but not something you can wear once it drops.

You could have adornments of various flavors for your innate skills (STR, INT, DEX), adornments for some of the other passive combat skills (Bludgeon, Blades, etc.), in fact, maybe adornments for each skill that gives a boost (so you could find +1/+2/+3 Necromancy), etc.

These would be rare drops that you would find doing some of the harder content.

Incentivize doing things in the game and it's a win-win. Crafters should like this idea, it does not supplant their function, only enhances it. Maybe even consider applying another skill to the crafting trees for adorning items.

Ok, I'll stop ranting...

 

Dont have time to read it but Artifact sets that combined give additional bonuses would take these to the next level.

 

Essence of luck!? oh come on!

Let's smash up Sting, Glamdring, Orcrist and 'the One ring' and extract 'essence of amazingess' that I can apply to my underpants.