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Many people stopped playing

Discussion in 'Release 21 Feedback' started by Edward Newgate, Sep 6, 2015.

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  1. Fionwyn Wyldemane

    Fionwyn Wyldemane Avatar

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    What is important in the scheme of things is that skill decay be removed. It is punishment for not playing and since RL takes the priority, I'd rather not be punished. Additionally, this is supposed to be an open world sandbox where my character decides what to focus on. If I want to take time off from crafting or combat so I can decorate, make music, hang out, whatever - there should not be a penalty. My opinion of course, but the woman who gives birth or the man who serves in the military may share my opinion if they are gone for two months and find their skills have decayed.
     
  2. rune_74

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    Is it really supposed to be an open world sandbox? Or is it a story driven rpg with some sandbox features?

    It's strange to see how things have changed since the launch of the kickstarter. I don't think you should be punished for not logging in, however I think that they should have skills decay if they aren't used as you play...
     
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  3. Fionwyn Wyldemane

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    I guess it depends on if you're playing single player or the online side? Perhaps it's both a story driven RPG AND an open world sandbox? Either way, you think there should be skill decay. Why? I clearly outlined why I think it should be removed. It's a punishment.
     
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  4. rune_74

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    It is a mechanic that allows the game to somewhat control diversity by making it a lot harder to max all skills. There has to be mechanics in place or someone could just max everything, yet I don't think you are reading what I'm writing as I said I don't think t here should be punishment for when you are away awhile, but as you level other skills some skills degrade if not used so as to make you have to manage your time.

    You think the storyline only comes into play if you play single player?
     
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  5. Fionwyn Wyldemane

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    I think the storyline is optional. Meaning, I am not required to do the story in multi-player if I choose not to. I think in SP the reverse is true. You must do the storyline ot what's the point?

    **Edit** With regard to making it harder to max all skills that's simple - have a limited number of skill points that you can earn and then you have to choose where to put those points. SWG had that system over a decade ago. It allowed someone to be an Architect/Pistoleer or another to be a Teras Kasi Master/Creature Handler.
     
  6. rune_74

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    I'm hoping most feel that their is a good reason to do the storyline...

    I guess I'm one of the few who think that watching people try and recreate their favorite fantasy novel in game and calling it canon is not my cup of tea. I think a sandbox with a good lore that is creator controlled is a lot more solid.
     
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  7. bwtdozer

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    Actually if you look at what Chris has said and posted about skill decay its more of a "punishment" for those that play everyday and is definitely not a punishment for those who can't log-in. It caps after 2 days of building up decay and it takes 40 days to lose 1 point in a skill.

    Example 1: you take two days off of playing, log in, aggro the closest mob, use no skills, and die. You lose .05 points in skills (2 days cap/40 days to lose 1 point=.05 lost every 2 days). You log out. Take another 2 days off of playing, log-in, aggro, die, lose .05 points, log off. Repeat for 40 days and you have lost a grand total of 1 point in skills. Repeat for a year and you have lost 9.125 points if you do not offset skill decay with skill gain.

    Example #2: you take a year off of playing, log-in, aggro the closest mob, use no skills, die. You lose .05 points.

    Example #3: you take a year off, log-in, aggro mob, use a bunch of skills, level a skill. You lose .05 points but its been more than offset by the skill gained during the fight.

    After 1 year the biggest punishment will be to those that log-in constantly, gain no skills, and die to mobs at least once every 2 days.

    This. Skill decay is meant to keep people from gaining 100+ in half the skills.
     
  8. bwtdozer

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    Does this mean you haven't been playing this release?

    After following your Epic forum post about getting to level 100, I was hoping to see some feedback from a player of your caliber on the use-based system and skill decay after the same sort of pushing the system that you did in that thread. Only a few players have the patience to test things like trying to max half the skills in this system. I was looking forward to an epic use-based maxing thread. :D
     
  9. Fionwyn Wyldemane

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    I love the story :) But - I am not *required* to do it. I have no desire to recreate anything, I just want to enjoy a sandbox and see what I can build. The last time I had this kind of opportunity was in SWG...a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away ;-D
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
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  10. Edward Newgate

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    a lot of peapel might have allready told the devs and know they show them that they dont enjoy the game this way i would guess
     
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  11. Fionwyn Wyldemane

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    I appreciate the info, thank you! The concern I have is that once you are higher level, losing those points could be the equivalent of a month of play. I don;t know this to be the case, but a concern nonetheless. As far as keeping people from gaining +100 in half the skills, the solution is easy - limit the amount of skill points in the pool and make the choices meaningful. In SWG, I could be a Master Doctor or a Teras Kasi Master, not both. Any points I had left over could be put elsewhere, but I could not skill up every class. And If I wanted to change skills, I had to remove the old ones to level up the new ones.
     
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  12. Themo Lock

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    Use based system usually not something i like, but they way it is being done here actually looks good. Needs some tweaks so support classes can level but other than that it's much better than i would have expected. I haven't quit, i am just having a break for a release (mostly due to huge disappointment about the introduction of decay). Decay will not affect most people in a big way, but it most certainly will affect me personally. If i am going to be punished for my effort, time and skill then i will not put the effort and time in to begin with. It is not a matter of it making the game "good" or "bad" but more if it provides the kind of environment i have an interest in. If progression ends in a month or two and all i am left with is maintenance then i will likely just casually play Shroud as a town manager and find a different game that caters to my need for limitless progression and competitive advancement. I do still have hope that that game can be this one, but will need to wait and see.
     
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  13. WrathPhoenix

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    A hard cap is the *LAST* thing many of us want - my self included.
     
  14. Fionwyn Wyldemane

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    I am seeing that...lol.
     
  15. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    I read the entire thread accurately. I must be crazy, or stupid. Or both.

    I'm on the fence about decay.

    I'm a bit perplexed that people are ready to give up on an entire game for just one feature. But, well, everyone has his/her own reasons, and I respect that.

    But one question comes to mind.

    Why is so bad that players can become 100+ in all the skills they want to?

    After all, if they have that colossal amount of free time to dump in the game, why that should be prevented? Or forbidden? Or dampened? Or... What exactly?

    It's an honest question, not a rhetoric one. Why SotA would want to prevent determined players to become what they want? Master of all trades. Ok, so what?

    The breadth and ambition (5 episodes!) and size and lifetime expectation of this game are nothing short of titanic. Why we can't have heroes who shine in every field, given that lifetime?

    TIA.
     
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  16. Sindariya

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    I think to stop playing is the wrong way to proof that decay is a bad thing. I leveled many skills only to see how decay is working at the moment to gain an opinion about. I talk to people about it and now that I got even deeper in the new skill system I wonder why we need decay. I needed all my pool of R20 (a bit over level 50) to get one skill on 100. When I now look how many skills we have and how much time it will take to get them on this level I shiver. I'm not sure why we need a decay system. It is said that the benefit between level 80 and 100 is 5-7%, so if it drops down to 1% for each 10 level who will complain. We also know that the amount need from 80 to 100 is about the same from 0 to 80 (just my own experience). So the next 10 levels will be the same amount as from level 0 to 100. So they waste a huge amount of XP for getting nothing. Is that not enough? Will we be really able to gain that much XP if we play each day 24 h that we will be able to get each skill on 100 within a year or over 5 years without decay? I would really like to know what the fear of devs is that lead into decay?
     
  17. Fionwyn Wyldemane

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    Good perspective and good questions.

    For myself, I won't give up because of skill decay, I just don't see the upside to it and I don't like it.

    With regard to skills and maxing them all out, personally/my opinion only, I don't see a point to it other than bragging rights to be the first to accomplish it. Ok..then what? You've maxed out every skill and after that where is the challenge? Maxing everything means nothing has meaning in my view.

    I'm old school and like having my choices *matter* including what skills I choose and what points I put in them. I like being able to try new things, but if I do, there is a penalty - in order to try something new, I have to give up something old. I see a need to set some limits on how many skills any one person can have at max. I don't think adding decay is the way to go on that. I do think having a pool of points is the way to limit it.

    But as has been pointed out to me - some people don't want a hard cap or limit to skills. All I'm saying is if there is going to be some kind of limitation - don't use skill decay to do it.
     
  18. David J Thompson

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    I see where you are coming from but i do like the decay, especially if it tweaked not to hurt casual players or players with real life emergencies. Did i read someplace you can lock certain skills in place so they wont decay? This could work if we balance things right. I like to think of it as not a punishment, but rather a very slight reward for the players that are so intense that they do max out a few; a feat nobody can sustain indefinitely. When and if the mood takes us we can see how far we can push things, just how far we can push the limits of our gaming. I suggested in another thread maybe having variable decay rates, over time maybe it wont "punish" us as much. You do a job a year or two you get rusty after a short break; 20 years on the job and you really don't fall off the bicycle. Friends. lets give this a chance and try to get this new system to work. Say no to cognitive "Status-Quo Bias" and see how good we can make decay work. Then if it sucks we can say well we gave it the old college try.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  19. Sindariya

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    what is a casual player for you? I would call myself casual player. Try to get in as often as possible but can't. We I have time I go out to impove even for a half hour. If I do that every second day I suffer under the whole decay and I'm not improving much. Because you get the full decay on everything if you dare to improve on little skill a bit or even die. Even if I lock a few skills, there are still so many open. Just the amount of skills in focus and tactics + let say 3 skill trees. That are around 50 skills on which you have to work against a decay. After 40 days I have regain 50 skill points. that perhaps doesn't mean much work on level 20 skills, but on 40 it is already a bit of work. And that is punishement for me if I have to work hard to stay on a status quo. There are better ways to limit persons that do look like punishement. And yeah, there is also crafting which is even harder to gain and to stay on a good level.
     
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  20. David J Thompson

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    Im casual for sure. I work 6 days week most of the time and usually about 80 overtime hours a month on top of my 42.5 "regular" work week, although the last year i have 100 OT hours more often than not. Thus... I do not get much time to play and i am not filled with "beans and vinegar" when i can play. Decay as it is now likely wont be the ideal. What suggestions can we offer for this system that would make it work? I guess i like the "theory" of what is could represent, to me a more realistic system without artificial limitations like level caps or x number of skill points. I like the idea in theory of variable decay rates but i have absolutely no idea how hard such a thing would be to implement. Could accounts have "casual player" toggles? (That would have a different formula) Could we return to game after a "real life emergency" and be able to click a button every few months or weeks or whatever that would temporarily disable the decay? Could we have "schedule synchronized decay" based on your individual logging and play habits? I don't know what we can have or not. This game seems to have a great fan base and some decent devs, maybe allowance can be made somehow? Most of the time i just putter around and craft in these games, i find gathering oddly relaxing so im not apt to ever really benefit greatly from a system with no absolute limitation on advancement, but there something about this system that i want to see work. It wont though unless we can help them find the right balance because i am reading a lot a valid and reasonable opinions. We want to have fun when we play, to feel good and if this system does not make you feel that way i hope we can tweak it so it can.
     
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