MMORPG: Review Part 2 - A Shroud of Confusion

I think the game's fun.
I think the building blocks are definitely here to deliver the "story" experience and the "mmo" experience as promised.
There are certainly a lot of growing pains at this moment in time, with the mighty Nerfbat and the economic issues which are frustrating and a bit demoralizing, but I can see it all working out.

For me I think the story is the weakest part of the game at the moment. The main questline is clodgy, awkward, requires a lot of 'guess the keyword' to progress dialogue and offers no real incentive or reward for the amount of time/effort it takes.
I've gone through the Love quest a few times now and while the back story is interesting, you miss out on a lot of it due to the frustrating dialogue system and even more frustrating/useless journal task system that gives no indication of what you're supposed to be doing most of the time.

The classless system, the ability to master everything with no skillcaps - is amazing and is one of the key attractors for me.

 

Of course you are allowed to give feedback, and if it's constructive and actionable then even if you're upset it can be a very positive way for the game to improve.

I don't know what you're doing personally. I can't know what's in your heart. I can't know what's in your mind. I have to rely on what you say and what you do.

I agree that my response was directed at you, but it was directed at your comments. You said that you had taken an indefinite break from SOTA, yet here you are. This implies that SOTA is only good enough to complain about, not to play.

That's not constructive and it doesn't give the developers any way to action your concerns. So how is that not trolling?

You're right that I'm heavily invested in this game. But my actions are to play it and provide constructive and actionable feedback when I find things I don't like. That's the real difference.

I'm glad to hear it.

Well that's a belief that you are not alone in. But I don't agree with it. Look, I'll give you an example. I backed The Bard's Tale, Underworld Ascendant, and Wasteland II. Do you know what all those games have in common? Well they're all kickstarters, they're all single players games, and they all were/are made using a very closed almost traditional development model. But most importantly they are all games I know/knew almost nothing about while they were in development. Yes there are forums that players can post on, but not forums that they can make a collaborative impact on the game in.

Do you know how much impact I had on the development of Wasteland II? Zero. In fact, when I played that game for the first time I thought it was horrible. I thought it was a complete waste of money and that the people making the game were idiots. Why? Because it wasn't done. It was probably one fourth of the way done and me being a gamer that just expected things to be finished and polished didn't understand that there was still a long way to go. About a year later I played the game again and it was better, but it still had major problems. I was still very disappointed.

When Wasteland II finally launched I couldn't believe the difference, it was fantastic. It almost felt like magic. There were still some bugs and a few things I didn't enjoy, but overall it was one of the best games I'd played in a really long time. Well worth the $25 I spend on it!

But here we are in the middle of development with early access and there are people that are just ignorantly patrolling these forums and being negative for the sake of being negative. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, I have no idea. It's true that you didn't personally come after me, but you sure came after the guy you replied to here:

Ridiculous? Delusional? Ask yourself?
And then in the end you dismiss any reply the guy would make by telling him not to even answer your questions that assume the answer already.

So ask YOURSELF, what are you doing here? If you took an "indefinite break" then why are you here? It certainly hasn't been to deliver constructive or actionable feedback. You may be upset, but you really are taking it out on the wrong people. You're the one that appears upset that a game in development isn't finished.

And just to tie this back to the OP...so does the reviewer.

 

I invested a great deal more in Goblinworks' Pathfinder kickstarter, and that one went into the ditch when they attempted to clone a fantasy version of Eve instead of Pathfinder. Granted, that game's design fell vastly short of what I thought I was backing, to no fault of the rank and file. Comparatively, SoTA is already stellar, and we know, and RG has said, it still has a very, very long way to go, especially in terms of filling out the quest lines. I only wish I had put that much money into SoTA, because already I have seen a much greater RoI and it is evident that we are still early in development.

 

...and out of nearly 1,600 posts, you pick the one where I happen to be commenting on a lack of NPC variety as my highest priority.

Please take your personal attacks elsewhere.

 

I'm in this boat and i think providing feedback on why I am at this point is constructive, and frankly, my right as having spent money on the game with representation I feel haven't been met.

If people who are dissatisfied are still here then it is because they want the game to improve.

What you don;t want is to alienate us to the point we just give up because you'll end up with an echo chamber

 

Yep, I totally agree with that. I'm a firm believer that when everyone is thinking the same thing, no one is really thinking.

But a voice of dissent for the sole purpose of dissent is not really helpful. If players are here just saying (for example) rude comments and negative feedback like "the graphics stink" that's not going to help the game at all. Likewise if people are making stuff up like the reviewer did by saying that the game was ONLY supposed to be about the old Ultimas (which is patently false), that's another example of feedback that only helps to undermines the development.

Simply put, it doesn't serve anyone to say "I don't like it" hold your breathe and mock the people that do like it. It's actually quite harmful to the development process because it's a lot of wasted motion and a distraction from making this a better game. If there are people that simply can't do anything other than that, either because they lack the faith that it will help, or they are so sour that they just want to vent aimlessly, I wish they could do that somewhere else where it doesn't have a negative impact. Because I want this game to succeed, and I'm willing to bet that some of the people that are venting do too even though they have a very poor way of showing it.

It's not that I expect people that are unhappy to pretend to be happy. I would just like them to be 1. factual 2. reasonable 3. not attack people that like the game or features of the game as they are 4. provide either practical alternatives or more specific feedback that is actionable. 5. Recognize when that's not possible for them on a personal level and get the heck out of dodge. Stop haunting the forums like a scorned ex-lover and allow the game to be whatever it ends up being without constant heckling and unconstructive feedback.

 

So, the article says:

" It was promised as some jack of all trades, combining all the best aspects from the Ultima series, including Ultima Online. Yes, my expectations in the previous article that it was supposed to be the successor of Ultima Online only, were wrong. I apologize for that, even though ironically the development process slid kind of into that direction. "

Then later says:

"It seems to be very estranged from the original vision that was promised in the Kickstarter campaign and therefore in my impression fans who expected a successor to Ultima VII are those who are the most disappointed currently."

This is clearly not an attempt to rewrite history.
This is a fair evaluation that in the author's opinion, fans wanting a more Ultima VII type of game are the ones most disappointed currently. Which I think is true as well.

 

Myrcello takes a note in his black book.

30 August - Sir Frank did it again. Using only 1% of the amount of all words we all use but getting the message out better then all of us.

Must take lessons.

 

Sir Frank, I read that as him starting out one direction which was wrong and he correctly apologized for, but then probably after being pressured by fans of the old Ultimas flipped his stance incorrectly to say that it was all about the old Ultimas. The truth is that it was ALWAYS about both. He may very well not understand that, but the impact of his ignorance is that people use those words publicly to exercise their own biases.

For example, "This is a fair evaluation that in the author's opinion, fans wanting a more Ultima VII type of game are the ones most disappointed currently. Which I think is true as well."

I don't doubt you THINK that's true, Sir Frank. It may be true, I don't know. But I believe there's more of a middle ground there. I believe that fans from both UO and the old Ultimas are probably equally frustrated and happy with the way the game is going right now. But because I don't/can't speak for either of those groups of people I tend not to try to project my beliefs as fact and I certainly don't take random internet reviews and use them to support my own bias.

That's why this is important to recognize as a review that's not particularly fair at all. It's performed on a game that isn't finished and is in development. It's a review that clearly doesn't understand the purpose of the game and what it's supposed to be. It's a review that focuses on graphics and "feelings" that seem rooted in preconceived notions about "pay walls".

Dissent for the sake of dissent is not helpful. It may create a lot of clicks on a forum thread. It may give players something to argue about and perhaps that results in more readers. But it's really an injustice to a game that people have put a lot of work into, and it's disrespectful to people that are enjoying the game for exactly what it's supposed to be.

 

I would give this review a 5/10, if meta-reviews were a thing.

It starts with a clever, but bait-clicky title and sort of meanders downward from there.

Firstly- It is not clear what standard or expectation the game is being held to... even though the author mentions that the game is in development, their expectation level sounds like a finished game. Is the rating scale the author is using the same for released and pre-released games?

Plus... if the promise is a successor to both Ultima VII and UO... um... YES actually I see a LOT of it here. The story obviously needs a LOT of work... but why in the world would anybody expect the full story to be out pre-release? Hey... why not just have the Guardian pop out of the mirror right in the opening sequence, and then cast Armageddon so we can all get right to the "point" of the story and loot Lord British's corpse?

Secondly- The author seems to have spent more time complaining about "not understanding" how to play, than actually learning how to play. It is true... things are not made that easy for the new player, but the intro training is enough to get people started. Personally, it took me a few weeks to figure out all the basics. I didn't find that bothersome in the least. I still don't understand how to backflip and roll reliably... not sure if it's me, a bug, or an issue with my "retro" keyboard...

Why does everybody need to know everything *immediately* about the game? What's wrong with mystery?

Thirdly- Maybe it is a sign of the economic times, but I really don't understand why this author (and others) make such a big deal about $45. Back "in the day" one could pay $45 for a game having pretty much *no* idea what it was like, whatsoever. Also- I easily pumped $45 worth of quarters PER MONTH into arcade games like Double Dragon, Simpsons, Ninja Turtles, etc. playing over and over again just to get trounced by a boss over and over again. Really... people these days seem to have extremely unreasonable expectations about what they are "supposed" to get for their money.

People spend $45 at the bar in a couple of hours, and don't think twice....?

People spend $45 on Candy Crush in a couple of hours.

$45 also buys... A couple of hours of skilled labor AT BEST. People DO realize that there are other human beings working to make this game who ALSO need to feed and clothe themselves and their families, right??

This kind of comment leads me to believe that this person should spend less time trying to monetize their blog, and more time thinking about how to actually improve their economic status with a real job or business. If $45 is a lot of money to somebody... they shouldn't be spending so much time playing computer games. Maybe get a soccer ball and kick it around... that's a much cheaper form of entertainment.

But in all seriousness... for the author to make a big deal out of $45 should tell the reader A LOT about them. Is this person trying to make a living playing online games and blogging about them?

Fourthly- Even though the author didn't discuss much, a 5 for the "visuals and sound" is dragging the overall rating down. Um.... the game is in *development* hello? I'm not a programmer, but it would seem to me that visuals are a very time-intensive process with little payoff in the short term. Especially considering the rate at which technology is advancing... why in the world would the devs put a bunch of work into graphics only to have them be obsolete by release? People have been complaining about graphics quality since EGA graphics, and despite all the advancement it's never good enough.

I really don't understand why it's such a big deal.... hey here's an idea.. rather than complaining that something on your screen doesn't look *just like* real life.. how about going outside and actually looking at REAL LIFE? I just really don't understand when people get so excited about game graphics... however great they are they will start to become "dated" within 6 months. Graphics is definitely NOT the key to longevity for a game.

Similar goes to the comments about the UI... um what exactly are people expecting from an inventory list? Is this what people nowadays are really getting all excited about in a game... the graphics and fonts used in the UI?! Again, this is obviously not in a final version, and anything they do now will become "dated" in 6 months time, so what is the point?

For somebody who is ostensibly an expert on games, the author doesn't seem to understand that anything and everything graphical will start to become "dated" within 6 months due to the hardware cycle.

PLUS.. if you make everything "state of the art" then people complain that they can't afford the hardware necessary to play the game.

This further leads me to wonder if the author is willing and able to play ANY MMORPG longer than 6 months. I'm guessing not.


I really hope that the future of this game isn't riding on blog reviews and first impressions from kids who spent their last $45 on a game, and got frustrated because they didn't master it within the first 10 minutes....

 

Over the years I have come to believe that there are people in the world who are more concerned with perceptions of themselves than they should be, to the point where it is more important to find fault in a thing than identify what it is, and to evaluate it on its merits.

If I extol something and hold it up as an example of heaven on Earth, then I'm investing myself in what I've extolled, and if there is fault then that fault will become associated with me. But if I find fault with a thing, I am not so personally invested, and anyone who then also finds fault with it compliments my insight, and consequently enhances my status.

If I belittle something, I seem to elevate myself. If instead I bow to it, then I elevate it, and bowing before it I am afterward lower.

This is a condition present more generally, as well.

Some people seem to want everything else to be lesser, imagining themselves greater because of that contextual lessening, imagining for themselves that they are better than they are, when it is only that everything around them has become worse. I think this tendency is more common than it should be.

I should be better than I was if I find more beauty and goodness around me, not worse. But then, by the same token, I should be helping myself if I help my neighbor, too, instead of presuming the default conceit that I can only improve by improving myself.

 

It seems like you are a lot more concerned with other peoples opinions than you should be.

 

I did not mean that I did not want the guy to reply. I meant that it's none of my business how much he/she has personally spent on the game. However, I do feel it's my business to point out what I perceive as an injustice when I think people are being exploited and I do feel some people are taking advantage of their celebrity status at other peoples expense.

In terms of what I said about ridiculous and delusional I think it's the only time I have said anything remotely personally directly in these forums and although I think what I said is rational maybe it was wrong for me to point that out. I know that sounds arrogant and Sheldon Cooperish but I don't know any better way to put it.

 

The community is such a huge factor I feel is left out. The game really fosters and encourages community and Roleplaying elements, and it shows by the community that has been built.

 

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that I must be delusional to think that the author clearly has his fingers in a few other MMO's, considering the review itself is riddled with links to other games which are paying the site for advertising and likely giving a bonus for hits on the links as well. Maybe you need to give it another look or something, there's even ads in between the paragraphs so I'm not sure how you missed that.

Also not sure why you asked at all, let alone rhetorically.. but if you must know, sofar I've purchased the game through steam, got myself some pure white and jet black dyes, and /puke emote for pvp when I stand over my enemies cold dead corpses. Believe me, I would back even more, but I like a challenge and I also like starting from scratch personally.

 

Ahhh the delusions of people feeling their loved Software being critisized...

...the article is fair..honest...and represents the current state of the game.

Can anyone name me a sceduled release date for when its done and playable without "dont you critisize its alpha"? No?

2036...yeah...that should do it.


Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtues is a fantasy RPG that combines a single player narrative with a sandbox MMO created by a team that includes: Richard “Lord British” Garriott the creator of the Ultima series, Starr Long the Director of Ultima Online, and Tracy Hickman the author of Dragonlance

Yeah...why would someone come to the idea that this titel has something to do with Ultima Online and Ultima...hmmm.


Now please...stop telling that writer what you think of him, look at your hand when you point your finger...you will see 1 finger pointed at him and three pointing back directly at you.

 

Nah, it doesn't even matter if it's unfinished; it's crowdfunded, and he's telling people not to support it because it's not as polished as games coming from companies with far less ambition and way more financial backing. There's nothing really fair about that.

It's all based on his personal opinion and playstyle anyways. Dated graphics? Not polished? You don't think that's for a reason? Like less lag for when thousands more people started jamming the login? PvPers dgaf lewl.

The guy clearly came into SOTA with the wrong expectations, and just doesn't understand the concept of the game.

Everyone always hates the noobie in the group, why? Because he's always embarrassing himself. At least the guy can spell, I'll give him that.

 

meh seems an ok review.

cant actually remember the last time i used a review to affect my choice on buying playing a game tho.

i search for videos of gameplay watch them and then check the offical forums written reviews have their place but when talking about a game its better to see video i just dont trust reviewers. they get paid for clicks and well its easier and more popular to be negative until some one else has already started the hype train then its fine to jump on...


probably be a good idea if someone were to make some youtube guides and walk throughs about the various systems maps and skill sets. ive seen some but mores better.

 

Nope...

I am a player, I paid for this software and the article fitts my oppinion 100%.

So? Is it about oppinions then and not the correctness of the article?

And he didnt come to SotA...he's a tester...he gets paid for this and was chosen due to his background knowledge on the matter "ultima". That makes him more then able to review this and warn people about it.

When was the last time you checked the frontpage? Leme Quote it once again:

created by a team that includes: Richard “Lord British” Garriott the creator of the Ultima series, Starr Long the Director of Ultima Online


If that isnt meant to draw in people that made good experiences in those games (publicity ?!?) to let them land in New Britania with a big "WTF?!?" over their heads...I dont know man.

That article was awesome and should be on the frontpage imho.


What are you doing in game? Socializing? Nice for you...cause I play since final wipe and I cant log in anymore due to lack of motivation...only thing I could accomplish is raise blades from 88 to maybe 100...and then? What then? get another skill up?

 

The article itself has as much value as the guys opinion, which if you take a look at the screenshots in the article is based on fishing, gathering cotton and walking around town.

He's also based a large portion of it on new player friendliness, and comparing it to established games long after their release, which have tons of videos and established players running around with nothing better to do than help newbs figure things out.

That said, many players here are out grinding right now, they aren't established already and have less time to make video guides etc. R33 just came out and there's pages and pages of bugs to sort out before there will be time to 'polish' up to the newbs fishing and gathering standards...

Anyways he's trying to compare an apple to an orange, and yet he seemed incredibly rushed to make that edit, even stating that he 'had to' for whatever reason. What he could have done is posted some feedback and saved himself the embarrassment, but then I guess that wouldn't be making him any profit, would it.