Nature to Nutrition - Links

*The questions and answers written below are my personal notes of what was said and paraphrased for brevity. Please watch the video for the actual questions and answers.

0:00 - Intros & ONBE presentations

Foundation:
11:53 - RG - Nature to Nutrition Deep Dive Begins
15:00 - RG - Nature to Nutrition Google Doc Opened and Goal Outlined
16:40 - RG - Food Breakdown (Protein, Carbohydrates, Fat & Water)
21:02 - RG - Additional Traits (Portion, Alcohol, Water & Stability)
22:23 - RG - Seasonality

Questions about Foundation:
23:53 - Stops for Questions about Foundation
24:25 - Duke Violation - “...the overall capacity that could be eaten being a multiple of what was needed.” “...how much of an impact this will have on the game overall”
25:07 - RG Response - Opens google document to Case Study to explain.

29:28 - Riya - “...I get a red flag when I hear about the vomiting. …” Based off experiences from other game systems.
29:48 - RG Response - “...If you vomit and lose the food, you lose the buffs...”
31:18 - Riya - Suggests adding time out before being able to eat again so that vomiting cannot be repeated continuously.

32:05 - Jarrod - “What about storing foods such as canning or a function like that…”
32:22 - RG Response - …” ...to create longevity was intended in it…” also wine and spirits will be able to be aged.

35:47 - SockeyedSalmon - “...will we be able to brand our own food and drink…”
36:06 - RG Response - Finished goods labelling and stacking items.

38:46 - Jon(Tate) - Cooking on a campfire vs cooking in a furnace.
39:11 - RG Response - Need to look into this but should fall into current system.

40:36 - Duke Violation - Will the order of consumption have an effect, for example drinking on an empty stomach?
41:26 - RG Response - Interesting proposition, current answer is no. (Touches on buffs and auto healing)

42:48 - Amber Raine - Two part question: 1- If you stock up on (eat) food and you’re not online will you lose your food level? 2 - If you don’t eat, will you end up getting hurt or dying?
43:20 - RG Response - Not determined yet but thoughts are: Shelf life of food is tied to game time. What’s eaten and in stomach will be based on logged in time.

44:39 - Jon(Tate) - What if you don’t eat a specific thing for a length of time (EG: Carbohydrates) does your cap go down?
45:04 - RG Response - Discusses not tracking additional items or diseases caused by deficiencies. Also talks about constantly overeating.

47:11 - Duke Violation - “Will there be mushrooms you eat that will make the screen all colourful and stuff?”
47:23 - RG Response - “.. and stuff.” Seguay into example recipes.

Example Recipes:
47:50 - RG - Hunting/Gathering/Foraging/Harvesting
47:50 - RG - Mining
52:29 - RG - Forestry
54:19 - RG - Agriculture/Planting (Also mentioned tanning/dyeing)
56:34 - RG - Foraged and Harvested Items
56:53 - RG - Field Dressing (Carcasses)
58:16 - RG - Tools
1:00:19 - RG - Miller and Textiles
1:00:43 - RG - Tanning/Dyeing
1:01:15 - RG - Butchery
1:01:49 - RG - Final Products Blacksmith
1:03:21 - RG - Final Products Carpentry
1:03:36 - RG - Final Products Tailoring and Alchemy
1:04:07 - RG - Cooking
1:09:09 - RG - Real Time vs Game Time comparison

Questions About System:
1:09:34 - RG - Opens floor to questions and discussions
1:09:53 - Jon(Tate) - “How will you stack ingredients in different states of decay”
1:10:20 - RG Response - How Rate of Decay and Stacking works.

1:11:59 - Jon(Tate) - “Could poor house cleaning result in rodents and other vermin that then gets into our food supply…”
1:12:15 - RG Response - Probably not in Episode 1

1:12:38 - Jon(Tate) - If a wine bottle can pour into four glasses, is it possible to pour it into three and the rest is gone?
1:13:03 - RG Response - “At the moment I would say no…”
1:14:25 - RG Response - Enhancements and recipes going wrong.

1:15:31 - Riya - With the example of the bottle of wine and glasses, when we go and explore the world we would have to bring everything, is there a variation for going out so we don’t have to take the whole dinner table?
1:16:01 - RG Response - How to handle a camping situation.

1:17:00 - Riya - How do we avoid the situation where there is one recipe or situation that always gives the best buffs and everyone only eats this?
1:17:27 - RG Response - How to handle the Min/Max -ing of food. (And Poisonous Britbane Bread to feed Lord British.)

1:21:36 - Amber Raine - Roleplay Question - Is it possible to have foods branded and given a special name?
1:22:05 - RG Response - Discusses possibility of Makers Marks vs Establishment marks

1:23:17 - Duke Violation - What about all the things that we try that are not recipes, how will that be handled?
1:23:32 - RG Response - Log review and commonly asked or tried items may be added. Also unannounced recipes may be added.

1:27:41 - Jarrod - In a restaurant type setting, what about a storage device that is a refrigerator?
1:28:14 - RG Response - Interesting idea, ‘don’t see why not’.
1:29:03 - Duke Violation - I would like to see a gold sink associated with operating that type of equipment in the game…
1:29:18 - RG Response - I agree, makes sense.

1:31:10 - Jon(Tate) - With the system impacting each other you could even go into things like certain reagents needing the refrigeration and having that shelf life…
1:31:29 - RG Response - Ice Cellars vs Refrigereators and a possible basement that could be an “ice cellar”. Also discussed ice economy and minable ice.

1:32:24 - FireLotus - FireLotus created a forum where they could share their favorite recipes.

1:33:14 - Amber Raine - Spoon would like to know about regional foods…
1:33:39 - RG Response - Regional Ingredients based on terrain types but will look into regional foods for both natural and growing as that is not in there yet.

1:35:05 - Duke Violation - Question about burn rates and ratios, how does this balance with a mixed character using magic and melee? Is there a penalty for using both sides?
1:35:54 - RG Response - Need more balanced meals but burn rate should be half as much on either side. Food is not a blocker but rather a buff.
1:37:24 - Duke Violation - How heavy of a burden is it going to be if we run out in the middle of combat or a quest and cannot eat right away? It won’t stop me, it’ll just make it harder?
1:37:47 - RG Response - That’s right. Also discusses the power of healing potions and adding alcohol to them.

1:39:05 - Jarrod - How much information do you get about food that you buy, like when does it expire? Will your skill at cooking help you assess how long a food or ingredient is going to last?
1:39:32 - RG Response - This came up with the team but it was not resolved. Also discussed handling food sold to vendors.

1:40:44 - FireLotus - Chat room discussing sickness and disease. Can you suffer from eating bad or spoiled food?
1:41:12 - RG Response - One things that hasn’t been discussed is whether disease is communicable from person to person or ‘flame effects’. Do we want to have food that causes problems, the answer is yes.

1:42:55 - Duke Violation - Maybe make the communicable diseases only occur in open PvP zones so that you have the opportunity to kill the diseased person first before they can give it to you. Or maybe attack a city by sending in someone with a disease first before attacking.
1:43:47 - RG Response - A good idea but we haven’t done anything for communicable diseases yet.

1:43:55 - FireLotus - Is there going to be a way for players to input their own recipes into the game and create their own original combinations of food?
1:44:19 - RG Response - At the moment we won’t be able to expose the recipe maker to people. Submit ideas through the thread that Gina (FireLotus) has put up.

1:45:38 - RG - Wrap-Up, Review and Thank-you

1:48:09 - Duke Violation - Additional Idea. Do not just place a makers mark but slot a text field for lore. Enter a short name into history.
1:49:12 - RG Response - Hypothetically possible but in a different way. Using the structure that's in place for books and parchments.

1:51:08 - Riya - Do you have to sit down to eat or can you eat on the fly?
1:51:16 - RG Response - You will likely be able to eat on the fly but not invoke a recipe.
1:51:02 - Jon(Tate) - Perhaps it should depend on what you’re eating?
1:52:15 - RG Response - Perhaps, if in a plate or bowl you need to sit down but if not then can eat on the fly. Will look into it.

1:53:38 - RG - Return to Wrap-Up, Review and Thank-you

 

Excellent summary and +1000 bonus points for the indexing!

 

+1,000 from me as well!

 

1:07:08 Son of Owain Regiside Stovies, 12 ingredients, Wowsers. That seems a bit much to drag onto a table to try to figure out the combination.

 

All this talk of Protiens, Carbs, Water, portions, stability etc. is reminding me of that balanced 'meal-in-a-drink' Soylent product that is circling around. Which then begs the question...why not Soylent Green?!

I'm predicting we'll see a lot of Optimal Diets for players to use for their particular play styles. Perhaps even a genuine profession as a Nutritionist to help players pick the right meal combinations....SotA's version of Jenny Craig Edit: or Granny Jeic as an anagram

 

Soylent Green? Ewww....Yuck!

 

You mean like this! Muhahahahaha!

 

PRECISELY! I wasn't sure if I should necro the old cannibalism thread

 

Yes, you are right, lets not hijack this thread! I just could not resist hehe~!

 

Thanks Ravenclaw!
I understand so many more.
1000x Thanks!

 

1. Fruit/vegetables - you don't have to be awfully bright to know when fruit is spoiled
2. You need to do some serious work on your inventory system to match the food system you're proposing
3. Below 6 feet the earth is 55 degrees F. So any cellar is naturally cool.
4. Obesity would be amount you eat versus how much you exercise. So if you continually eat 5 days worth and are exerting yourself each day chances are you're not going to become obese.
5. Alcohol is also a preservative.
6. Alcohol is also a very good pain killer, so why excessive amounts may cause issues with your dexterity. It also makes it so you don't notice damage as much.
7. Alcohols effects also vary from person to person, how far are you willing to go with this silliness. And it can greatly vary from person to person depending on body mass and usage.

 

Good points.

I like #3 in regards to basement. It could make basements more worthwhile. The deeper the basement the colder for food storage. So a level 5 basement has the best storage on the last level.

Great point on #4. I use to be very hard core physically and ate up to 20,000 calories a day to just maintain, had 3.5% fat, and was still often hungry.

I do like the core aspects of this system but feel its a bit overly complex in areas.

In LOTRO i had a max crafter in every craft, both skill and guild.

I bought my food from other cooks at very high dollar. I had someone i was set up with that id give bulk orders to and i paid them well. Even they didnt sell to the public, they where a friend I had given a lot to and wanted to help back.

So why would i pay that much if i could make my own? If they could make that much money why didnt they sell more?

Even as an avid crafter, cooking was just to complex. My cook had a maxed vault using real money. Every slot of it was full of stuff. Every slot of 6 packs where full. I had overflow going into houses.

To make a final food item would take so many crafting steps from so many different things, even with plugins to simplify it, it just wasn't worth my time and it was a headache. It also was only buffs, and more importantly it didn't expire.

I like a lot of the core ideas of this food system. Im not fond of the food expiration but will be ok with it. I think its just a bit unfair to the more casual player. Thats why im all for ways of extending expiration!

The crafting system im worried might be getting a little to complex, even for the most dedicated crafters.

Given my wife will probably be a cook crafter and little else in the game if she sticks with it, ill have a steady supply of foods. So i say this very objectively in terms of no matter how complex it is, it shouldn't effect me

 

Thanks OP for posting this.

 

Also with proposed spoilage it means a lot more wasted time harvesting. Do you really need to add another time sink? I'm not big on games that waste my time and this seems to be a major waste of my time. I have to worry about raw materials wasting away and finished product. I didn't realize you were intent on making SIMs mid-evil.




PS: yes the misspelling was intended.

 

I don't mind and the discussions are good so far but thank you for the consideration, it is appreciated.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

Personally I am a fan of spoilage though I do not think it should be too harsh. From what I have seen the proposed spoilage rates seem fine but perhaps they need some tweaking. Or storage options that greatly increase the life of fresh ingrediants like the deep basements mentioned here or the refridgerator mentioned in the hangout. I do personally think though that having stuff spoil will be good for the economy creating a steady demand for these fresh ingrediants, but at the same time people should not feel like they are constantly having to go out and either buy or harvest/hunt these ingrediants.

As for the cooking system itself personally for the most part I am a fan of it, but I do think it could be maybe a little bit too involved/complicated. I still really look forward to testing it though.

 

Melee is not body building. Warriors may do body building to gain strength but on the battlefield they are more athletes. BUT even body builders will tell you carbohydrates are as important to building muscle as is water. Why do you think serious body builders walk around the gym with a gallon jug of water in tow?
A proper analogy would more be a warrior is like a football player. Fotballers do body building to gain strength, yes. But when playing they need carbs, carbs are energy! And that's what you need for battle. energy.

Why this system is definitely no FUN
Some of us work for a living. That means during the week I spend 8-12 hours a day working. So when I come home I only have a finite amount of time to play. In a usual game I spend that time gathering for my next crafting session. So, my chef goes out one evening and gathers one or more components for the recipe I'll be making. The next night he gathers the rest. Then on Wednesday I was going to make my souffle's but alas I had to work late. I come back Thursday to finish my souffle's but alas everything has rotted and I have to start all over. DEFINITELY not fun!!!!!!

I backed this game quite heavily for a rich fantasy world. Not a realistic world hellbent on frustrating me and ruining my gameplay.

 

I believe there will me many food vendors you can buy from stocked with all kinds of meals. If you are a casual gamer and do not have time to forage and whatnot when you get into game you will have the option of buying the items. I can understand the position of little time in game, but should we punish the other players who do have time, and want the deep purposeful crafting system. I personally want to much instead of not enough. Many of these deep skill sets for crafting will have a purpose in role play, because for some people, all they want to do is be a baker, or butcher, or alchemist. They enjoy fixing and preparing and putting in hours to supply food for their guild, their friends, their family. Just think of the hours (much like exploring dungeons) that the crafter searches to find these hidden recipes, the time put in doing the research. To some people this is fun. Things need to take time. If you do not have the time, like I said, you can buy these items from venders, but to cripple the game because of it makes no sense to me. Oh man I said time a lot! wonder if @TimeLord will show up!

 

I have to admit I find this aspect of SotA development incredibly boring, tedious and overly complex with no real benefits to gameplay that I personally would consider fun.

The crafting aspects, I get and have no problem with (besides spoilage...why?!)

Why are we eating in the game? To keep us preforming at optimal levels, so food is only in the game to prevent us from being "debuffed" from our "normal" levels. (boring) Is my understanding correct here?

Then we have to eat carbs, fats, protein and water in some sort of specific proportions in relation to the activities we are performing. (tedious, overly complex)

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if food can't buff you past normal operating performance levels, will food created by master craftsmen on master crafting station just be more nutritious/ calorically dense? i.e just last longer in your stomach? (boring)

Personally I think cooking and food should be the longer lasting weaker effects version of alchemy.
Food created by low skilled players on low level crafting stations would be for nutrition only, where as food created by master chefs on master cooking stations could provide some other low level advantages or buffs.

For example:

Turkey leg prepared by low level cook, adds +15 Protein, +2 carbs, +2 fat and +1 water
Turkey leg prepared by high level chef, adds +17 Protein +3 carbs , +3 fat and +2 water, +1% movement speed for 12 hours (non- stackable by eating more turkey legs)

or

Angel food cake prepared by low level cook, adds +15 carbs, +4 fat, +1 water
Angel food cake prepared by high level chef, adds +17 carbs, +6 fat, +2 water, +2 damage resistance against demonic creatures for 24 hours non-stackable by eating more Angel food cake

This would be WAY more fun IMHO and give me a reason to seek out master chefs and purchase their wares...As it stands now I just see myself going to an inn at the start of every play session and eating 5 days worth of food. (tedious and boring)

my 2 cents...

P.S. I really hope RG puts as much effort into other aspects of the game as he is this, such as companions or rouge style gameplay, because this seems like a lot of effort for little reward.

 

I'm glad to see the amount of thought that is being put into cooking, because it is cook to have so many skills that you can train up but sometimes they turn out to be really pointless skills. I tried cooking in ESO and other than selling, eating, or tossing it there was no reason to train it. It wound up taking up pack space with the huge number of ingredients and being more of a pain than being any fun.
The thing I enjoyed about UO cooking was that at the higher level you could make tribal paint which wasn't useful to EVERYONE, but it gave you a reason to work on making the level higher.

I really like the need to balance out your meal idea too. Its good that it isn't supposed to penalize you if you don't eat 3 squares... or at all.. its supposed to give buffs for the times you do eat right, which is very life like.

The suggestion to have diseases that can be given to others by hugging and such, sure if you keep something like that in pvp only zones, fine, but putting something like that throughout the game will just cause griefing. Some real life stuff is best left out of games or limited because people will only do things like that because there is no real penalty, it just gives them a cheap laugh at someone elses expense. PVP and pking is sometimes just another form of griefing (ex: rez-killers), so something that has such a big chance of becoming a new way to grief people should stay out of general playing.