New Player Experience with Quests, ???? not very good IMHO

Ok I feel I am a pretty intelligent and resourceful guy, but the Quest (a lot of them) to leave Blood River makes me feel like an Idiot. (Bear with me)

I enter the Game and pick a path; I chose Truth and was awarded a path that picks for me Arcane and Leads me to the Blood River. I know I can change this path and the starting skills but that is ONLY because I have been here and understand fully how that part works. Very poor thinking and a new (especially young) player will have NO idea. :-( So I start with skills and a path I might not like . . . . .

Now I enter the rift and end up in Blood River, I see bodies and a Scavenger. He is the first person I can chat with and he tells me of a Sword in a Weapons Rack and Tidbits????? I travel around and see bodies, I check a few and grab some junk, some gold, some notes . . . . And head to a Gate (cannot open it) and a Wanderer there who rambles on and talks about the Scavenged Dagger. - - - There is nothing said about the gate being closed and how to get it open, which is my desire as I want to enter the world?????? So I go back to the Scavenger and talk to him about his pretty Dagger, and all he says is I have nothing to offer ((( I know this is a clue but to me it is a very veiled one, here a nicer clue would be "perhaps a pretty trinket that the elves might have left behind might do")) so how am I supposed to get something he wants?? Do I keep looking in bodies, houses, kill the cat??? Nothing at all points at HOW to get the dagger OR that when I do the wanderer will unlock the gate. As a new (inexperienced player) I am lost, this is a puzzle with all the pieces the same shape and no design on them to put them together.

The ONLY thing reason I know what to do is from previous experience with the game and find a Intricate Mirror in a Drawer. As a new player I would have already gone to the boards to find a clue since I have not been pointed in Any direction - NONE.

Anyhow now I have looked at every body and in every house and on every body and found a few more things and one was this mirror, so I go back to the Scavenger. I trade the mirror for a pretty dagger and still don't know what to do with it . . . So in boredom I hit that training dummy for a few. Now I do not really like swords, but nothing has told ma about what weapon is bludgeons or . . . . . . . Now since it is the only thing I can think of I go back to the only other living soul. He asks me if I found a way to get the dagger from the scavenger. Are those the clues given to point me at trying to get the dagger? but why they have no meaning to me? What pointed me to look everywhere and find a trinket, it is all luck and happenstance. Like I said a clue to find a object left behind would have made me feel a little better and as a new player (and especially a child) I would have then gone out and looked for something.

All I am saying is instead of the scavenger saying you don't have anything I want - he could say "perhaps of you find something else of value laying around I would trade you for it" this would encourage me to look all over, and not leave me wondering what to do. But more importantly the Wandering Bard should say "the lands on the other side of this gate are filled with evil, and if you had that dagger perhaps I would unlock the gate, as you would at least be better prepared to go into the world", something to tell me why the gate is locked and what would help me inlock it.

Starting blind I have I have no idea, a key, hack my way thru, kill something, trains with the sword, ????? Do you see my dilemma, If you think those clues are ok? Think like a very new player and a child

**** Something to point in a direction to look for trinkets and something to say why the gate is locked would have gone a looooong way in sending me in at least some direction . . . . . . . .

Small clues are needed in this quest of the there areother quests in the game have this same feeling. We have accomplished a few but the only reason we have completed them is, the boards have pointed us in some direction ((the Shutter Eye Quest is one of the worst (if you have not done it go try it WITHOUT looking anywhere but the game for clues and tell me how it goes)) (Now I know some puzzles are hard, but some are just as blind as this one)

And this is the first experience an new player will have in this game :-(

 

This is a great post. We need feedback like this for many avenues of the game. New players that have left negative feedback with very few hours clocked on steam I assume have ran into things like this, making the game frustrating and confusing for them. The first few hours of playtime for a new game needs to grab the player and make them want to play more not give up.
Pretty sure this will get worked on to make it better.

 

the new player experience will get a face lift

yea the blood river quests are in their most rudimentary form right now.
no worries tho ~.^

 

So a comment was made to me - "turn on hints, they tell you everything"

So again I think (very strongly) that if you HAVE to turn on hints then something is wrong. Like I said I do not think I am not all that smart but those "hints" are not that at all they just need a little more. Like when you find the bard at the gate a simple comment as to why they are closed and if you ask about the gate some words as what might open them would help.

Also the scavenger could give just a tiny boost to entice you to look for something like a trinket left behind might help without having to turn on in game hints ???

 

New players don't have to turn on hints, they are on by default. IF they weren't showing for you then you must have turned the off. It's an option that, I believe, appears on the bottom of the first hint that pops up and, I believe, is an option via the menu.

I believe talking to Evard, I think that's him name, by the gate would also lead you to believe that the scavenger wants something found in the scene. (I know he recognized my trade with the scavenger and that I had the item needed.)

I like the unknown nature of the quest and had no problem realizing that the scavenger had something that was probably part of a quest that would conclude somewhere. Unfortunately Lum is probably going to make changes to make it easier; since he did something similar with the Couage starter scene in Highvale.

 

the point is how did you know, you didn't you guessed. nothing points you in any direction, I could guess my way thru the whole game buy picking up everything I can and sure I am bound to get something right. even a blind squirrel fins a nut every so often.

all I am saying is blind luck should not be how you accomplish things.

 

Are those quotes from a dev ?
If so, then what exactly constitutes a "face lift" ?

 

I purchased this game back in 2013 but only just started playing it in phase 26 and so far I am impressed in the game for the most part, however quests do need a HUGE overhaul - now I'm not saying put question marks on there head or have a map marker pointing the way to go, all I'm saying is the quest dialog needs a lot more refinement so that the quest isn't so cryptic, also some of the quests ive noticed say 'ok go get me the 4 books I need', now they don't give you a clue where to look or what the titles are so it leave you bewildered. I also think the journal needs to have a recorded version of the whole conversation that you can open up and re-read what was said incase you don't understand it the first time round.

 

I agree with Honador, and although I know there, and especially here on the forums, the elitist hardcore (I'm not saying that in a derogatory manner) are all about keeping the game "pure" but what he's talking about is right. There is no way this game is going to survive with only a couple thousand hardcore players. It has to be simple for the kids to throw their $60 bucks at it as least once if it's going to stand a chance of making it actually into the game we all really want to see.

And telling someone to "try again" isn't going to get it done. Should there be a giant ? above peoples heads or a glowing path leading them straight where to go? No, but give them some clue and direction.

 

The thing is, these are relatively simple quests. What happens when the quests get more involved(if they do)?

I'm not seeing a lot of depth so far.

 

In some alpha/beta games I have played, the starting experience is one of the later things to be polished. Indeed, the most recent developer notes indicate that this is on the schedule a few months out. Stay tuned.

 

now that the notes are public, yes

 

It is a simple quest because you have completed it and know the way to do it, there is NO , and I mean NOTHING that points to getting something left behind by the elves. (if you are going to tell me leave the hints on, then that is NOT part of the game and says it is to hard to do without hints, which is my point) No player should HAVE to play with hints on or go thru quests and hit or miss to get them don.

Like I said go do the Tower of the Shutter eye quest and let me know how you do, NOT the one to lot the che3sts the one that requires traveling around ardoris, to and from

if you play with hints on also you are not playing the game you are using the game to play itself. Play should not require hints or puzzles without a picture and all the pieces the same :-(

As it stands not there are 3 quests I have done in previous release to get exp and gold and they are broken or something has changed and the clickable words are not working.

The quest system needs some serious looking into, as a learned player I should not be having so much troubles with stuff I already knew.

 

The first few hours of playtime right now are Brutal. They are even brutal for me as an experienced user of this game that knows what to expect.

 

I think you totally mmisunderstood me....I was saying that even with easier quests people are getting lost imagine if they put detailed quests in.

 

I think the scavenger should say he is looking for elven trinkets and that Edvaard should tell you to try searching the elven houses (perhaps with a description of what those houses look like).

I found more than one trinket and I really think any of the elven valuables you find should work for the trade-in.

I do not feel that one needs to be prompted to speak to the only NPCs in the town - this is relatively common sense. When you're in a room (or a small town) and you can't get out and there are just two or three people in the town, it stands to reason that you would speak with them and perhaps ask how to leave.

I don't mind the occasional needle in a haystack quest (optional) but I think since we are gating entire game behind one... it would make sense (in a tutorial setting) to throw a hint after x minutes about your suggested next step so people aren't stuck frustrated in the opening zone - especially if they somehow missed opening that one key drawer or box or body in a specific home that opens the rest of the game.

 

We plan to redo the starting experience next release, starting with Highvale.

 

If you have the time, can you give us a very quick rundown of what it is that you're going to redo? Just bullet points to get us thinking is fine...but more detail is always appreciated

 

Making it more interactive/interesting, less dependent on tooltips, more obvious a path to completion, introducing non-combat/story elements that will be optional but there for exploration, allowing people to enter initial scenes for other paths than the ones they began with to start that part of the the story