New Player Feedback (Highvale Track)

Discussion in 'New Player Experience Feedback' started by Bedawyn, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. Bedawyn

    Bedawyn Avatar

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    I may end up working on the wiki if I can't do the forums, but as a newbie I haven't felt knowledgeable enough yet.

    New Character Take 3;

    Still playing offline, and I was impatient to see if it was true that multiple offline characters would share the same world, see each other's houses, etc. And the quest lines had forced my earlier character, Aidan, to become someone other than who she was meant to be. So I broke down and recreated the blacksmith for the third time. My intention was to just run through as quickly as I could, get to Axwich, and see if Aidan's house was there. But of course that plan went by the wayside.

    With a lot fewer performance issues this time around (turning shadows way down and turning off the music and wifi make crashes the exception rather than the rule) and knowing the area was safe, I was more inclined to leisurely explore. I ended up looting a WHOLE lot more.

    The looting issue is a bit of a dilemma here. When I started gaming back in college, I hated the idea of disrespecting the dead by looting their corpses, but of course gaming trains you to do just that until you take it for granted. Then SotA comes along, and on the one hand the Oracle is chiding you for looting bodies and the folk in Soltown/Solace Bridge try to shame you for looting -- but the game itself still rewards you for it.

    For this character, Dara, I'd already decided that she and her sister were themselves from a village that had been attacked; having been forced to start over from scratch herself and being eminently practical, she figures it's just wasteful to leave stuff lying around; the dead don't need it, and she does. She ended up with A LOT more stuff overall, and a lot more useful stuff than Aidan -- groceries and tons of maps. (Not that the maps actually are useful, but they look nice and sell decently, and if I have one for a city, I no longer feel OOC when resorting to the web map.) And because Dara was shamelessly looting corpses, she even ended up with a quest item that Aidan never got. (There actually ARE three dead knights already, although I still prefer my idea of the Wounded Survivor.)

    I was also careful this time to find Nena before finding her note. So Dara got the explanation about why Nena was guarding children. For Aidan, that was a suspicious mystery.

    Getting Samael to follow her was still irritating; it's a missed opportunity to teach newbies how to create and join a party.

    Given the emphasis -- from the bard and Floyd and the website/promo material -- on newbies going to the Outskirts first (a level 0 area, when Highvale itself is labeled level 1), Aidan had done what the game told her to do and left for the Outskirts fairly quickly. She came back and discovered the way over the walls later, after it was already bandit-infested.

    With Dara, maybe it was just the time of day and lighting combined with knowing where to look, but she found the way over right off the back. Inspired by the better loot she'd already gotten and the sight of more dead elves than living ones, she managed to knock off and loot all the elves, and mostly finish the whole area before heading to Floyd's wagon.

    I'm not sure how I feel about the game telling you to do one thing while rewarding you for doing the opposite. I will say I was surprised that the outside-the-walls area was as easy as it was; everything is telling newbies to go to the Outskirts first, but Highvale Outskirts is MUCH harder than the pre-bandits Highvale itself.
     
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  2. Bedawyn

    Bedawyn Avatar

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    I begin to understand why none of the taming guides I've read say anything about cats. For all the trouble you have to go to (especially offline, when you can't buy the million and one components from another player), it probably hardly seems worth it to many people for an animal that won't fight for you. But I don't want a corpion fighting for me -- I don't even know what a corpion is yet. I just want to name the stray cat that hangs around meowing piteously outside my door and let it come inside out of the rain. I don't know why I should need a summoning whistle for that, I can barely summon a cat to go to the vet, I'm sure not expecting to ever summon one when I'm out adventuring.

    But I've got the summoning necklace anyway, and I'm wearing it. Collar is in my inventory, and the right glyph is on my hotbar. The poor piteous cat is tabbed, but OF COURSE it's tabbed blue, not red, because it's not actually an enemy. And the glyph won't un-grey, and I can't actually attack the cat. (Thankfully, what were they thinking when they decided a game about virtues would require you to mistreat your animals?) I make random punches at the air when I try, but the cat just ignores it and continues rubbing against my feet.

    Is there any way to adopt these cats? (Or the stray dogs) Pretty please? I sit here meowing back at this poor cat all the time (because I'm the sort who was doomed from birth to be a crazy cat lady), not being able to adopt it will drive me more bonkers than any broken quest.
     
  3. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    I've never heard that before, where did you see it mentioned?
     
  4. Vladamir Begemot

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    Good idea. Of course then they will be expecting and attempting to get every NPC to join their party, and frustrated with that.
     
  5. Bedawyn

    Bedawyn Avatar

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    A possibility, but at that point you're still getting a lot of tips in the center of your screen; it would be easy enough to add one warning people that most NPCs can't do that.

    Sigourney in Solace Bridge is another huge missed opportunity, one that forces you to break character in order to play it out as it is now. She's stuck badly injured behind enemy lines, the PC has a ton of healing potions and life glyphs, and instead of showing you how to use them on another person, you're forced to just leave her there alone and bleeding out on the floor. Is that really what a character on the love path would want to do?
     
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  6. Bedawyn

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    Somewhere here on the forum -- but only once, in passing, and I couldn't find any other reference to it anywhere, which is why I didn't want to pin my hopes on it until I'd tried it for myself. But it's true!

    Dara is now safely ensconsced in Aidan's spare bedroom, I can switch between the characters freely, and all their stuff stays persistent regardless of which character I'm playing. Quests and mobs still respawn, which can be either good or bad depending on which quest and mob you're talking about. The house and lot is treated as if the current character owns it, which is convenient for the player, irritating from the character perspective, but probably more convenient than irritating. Will certainly make Dara paying rent to Aidan easier, since there's no other way to transfer gold between the two. Gold, crowns, and inventory is still specific to each character.

    But the bank account is shared, unfortunately, which effectively means only your first character can have a bank account, since there's no way to separate which stuff belongs to which character. But I only found out how to make a backpack yesterday (after having wasted 1000 gold on a public cache chest I didn't need, because it seemed to be the only offline alternative for Dara to have a container that wasn't identical to Aidan's Dark Containers). I'll have to test out if I can put a filled backpack in the bank, that may solve the separate bank accounts problem.

    And of course only the first character gets the free deed. That's not a problem for characters like Aidan and Dara, who are supposed to know each other anyway. It's more problematic for other characters who are supposed to be strangers in different parts of the country. (I've got eight people I want to be playing by now, not counting the generic NPCs I'm creating families and backstories for). But since offline mode won't have any competition for lots, I'm thinking that when I'm ready to switch regions, I just store Aidan's house, unclaim the lot, then use the same deed to claim a lot in Ardoris to build Jalena's house. Not ideal, but it should do until the characters can afford to buy their own deeds.

    Which looks to be a very long time for the crafter characters, since recipes seem extremely hard to come by offline. (Except for the fish trophies I'd never use -- there are plenty of them cluttering up my book.) But vendors are still sold offline; will be awhile before I can afford one to test, but I'm hoping that they actually work and then my crafter characters can sell things to my adventurer characters.

    If that works, then with 10 character slots offline and each character able to have their own vendors, houses, pets, etc. -- even if it takes a long time to get there, that will go a long way to countering the emptiness of an offline world. (I still want to name and backstory Axwich's NPCs, though. And rearrange a couple of their houses.)

    Either today or tomorrow I get to find out whether they are actually going to evict us for not paying taxes in offline mode. :) Better remember to store the house first just in case -- I don't want to have to put everything back on the shelves!
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
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  7. Vladamir Begemot

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    Wow, very cool!

    For storage, Wooden Storage Chest and Trunk are what you're looking for to start with. The Carpenter in Ardoris sells the recipes, they may also be discoverable.
     
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  8. Jaesun

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    And Trunks are stackable!
     
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  9. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Remember that any recipe that is listed as "Re-Teachable", you don't need to buy. Just make the combine once on the crafting table and it will add itself to your book. Only Re-Teachable recipes are discoverable, however.
     
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  10. Duke Aventine

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    Interesting idea is the OP regarding having one Outlander character and leading all the others to be Natives. Given the Season 2 storyline just introduced (Atavists rousing the natives taking it to the Outlanders), I wonder how such a game mechanic might be used to 'create sides' more in the game world.
     
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  11. Bedawyn

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    Thanks, guys! I appreciate the tips for myself, but from a game standpoint, it still comes down to offline mode suffering from an economy intended to be online. If a new player is online and can buy things from other players, everything's cool. If they're offline, they're too often forced to break character: either go to the forums or the wiki for recipes that they can't find to buy, or make their character learn specific crafts they've no real interest in, or both. Even if you get from Highvale to Ardoris on the other side of the continent, you can only buy the recipe, not the actual trunk, which means EVERYBODY is forced to become a jack-of-all-trades, at least at the lower levels.

    The travel thing is what's still really getting to me. I've started reading the "Through the Lunar Rift" series, and the first book paints a perfectly realistic picture of what an Outlander unexpectedly sucked into a strange new world would actually do: Find a safe home and STAY THERE for a year or so until they're confident in their skills and the world around them. And a new player who's picked the Love track could do that, stay on the Perennial Coast and not lose out too much. I don't know about the Truth track yet. On the Courage track, if you try to stay in South Paladis, you're going to be missing out on a lot because even basic Level 1 recipes aren't sold in Resolute the way they are in Ardoris.

    Meanwhile, the Lord Marshall in Resolute (and all the forum people) are telling you to go to Ardoris, but the Lord Marshall at least isn't telling you how. [He actually did tell me there was a caravan to Ardoris in Highvale, but (1) as far as I can tell, that caravan doesn't actually exist, and (2) he only told me after I'd been to Ardoris and back.] I've been travelling via the Lunar Rift; there's enough in-game hints about how it works that it didn't feel too much like cheating to go to the Chronometer on the web, especially since -- with an errand from the Lord Marshall to accomplish -- I should have been able to go to someone in Resolute and get them to TELL me how to use the Rift.

    But the better option? Why is the Lord Marshall giving important messages to random strangers anyway, when he's got knights hanging out on the porch doing nothing? It should have been the Companion Conrad carrying the message and offering to accompany you to Ardoris, to show a new player how to get there.

    Because travelling overland? I just can't make myself break character enough to do that. If you get whomped on by bandits just trying to get from Resolute to Axwich, most sensible low-level people are not going to try to take the roads alone all the way to Ardoris. Courage is one thing, reckless stupidity is another. As for going off-road, if there's bandits on the highway, who knows what dangers lie off it? Getting lost and exposure to the elements are probably the least of it. Not to mention dangerous mountain passes. I keep finding these travel instructions from older players that just take it for granted you have easy access to Brittany or Kingsport, but as a new character coming in from Highvale, at least in offline mode, you can't get to Brittany without either breaking character or going through Nightshade Pass or Sanctus Spine.

    And the worst of it, the problem should be easily fixable. Jaanaford looks like it was a tiny fishing village even before it got flooded out, but the text talks about it like it was a good-sized town and it's got a good-looking harbor. Just plop a few red boats down, one to Storm's Reach (where they can catch an existing boat to Aerie), and a long-range one to Ardoris. And one to Etceter, since it's on the other side of the bay, and one to Axwich because they're connected by the river anyway. Make it so only one or two boats are in port at a time and if neither are the one you want, you have to wait around. And then new players would be able to complete all three outskirts without breaking character.
     
  12. Bedawyn

    Bedawyn Avatar

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    Yeah, when I saw the post about the Atavists, I thought that would fit perfectly. I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with that.

    I never got to play Ultima (I think I did once, maybe, on a borrowed computer) and have been hesitant about my runaway imagination creating backstory that is going to be jossed as I learn more about the official backstory for this world. But what I've been envisioning is a native human race that isn't quite the same as Terran humans, though close enough for breeding.

    In my version, the indigenous humans were nearly wiped out (long long ago, long before even the more recent cataclysm), leading their most powerful mages to create the rifts that brought the first Terran (or Ultiman) Outlanders here. That explains why some of the cultures are so similar to Terran historical (or Ultiman) cultures, because they were either founded or at least influenced by Outlanders from those cultures. It also explains why the notion got started that Outlanders were somehow special and more powerful, because ages hence they actually did save the indigenous humans -- not through having special powers or a destiny, but simply through adding numbers to a depleted population and hybrid vigor to a depleted gene pool.

    The gene pools aren't completely the same, of course. The gold and yellow eye colors, for instance, are an indigenous trait, while blue and green eyes indicate more recent Outlander heritage. But by now, almost all of the natives do have Outlander blood, although it was so long ago that it had passed out of common knowledge even before the cataclysm. Even the Atavists genuinely believe their blood is pure -- genuinely, but falsely.

    I imagine there's some very small, isolated population off in unexplored lands somewhere that really does have almost-pure native blood -- but they know the truth and would NOT be on the Atavist side.

    But of course, none of that is why I started thinking about native characters in the first place. I just want to play people who have default starting access to one of the distinctive native cultures (i.e., Outlander newbie outfit is not the same as Perennial Coast newbie outfit is not the same as Kingsport newbie outfit) and who don't have mysterious entities interfering in their lives or random strangers acting like they're somehow better than all the other natives (or calling them "Outlander" as if there were a neon sign over their head).
     
  13. Vano31415

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    Proposal.
    Please make the recipes highlighted in different colors when viewing the inventory and when buying from merchants.
    Green means that the recipe has already learned.
    Yellow indicates that the recipe has not learned.
    Red indicates low level of skill.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
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  14. Bedawyn

    Bedawyn Avatar

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    A few more thoughts:

    Highvale Outskirts is lovely -- I still want to claim it, renovate the monastery, and move in; re-settle the refugees at the farm; make another banner quest based on a dungeon situated in the crypt; then let the areas serve as both a starter adventure area and my homebase. However, now that I've seen the Solace Bridge area, it's really noticeable how different Highvale is.

    Solace Bridge seems like what you'd expect a starter tutorial area to be: crafting lessons, easy monsters, slightly harder monsters that stay in their designated areas so you can avoid them until you're ready. Solace Bridge (which is designated Tier 1 but feels like Tier 0) and Solace Bridge Outskirts (which is designated Tier 0 but feels like Tier 1) are both significantly easier than Highvale or Highvale Outskirts. It's also a much better location for starter players, since they can easily get to many other areas including Ardoris, which even in offline mode has a ton of resources unavailable to new players who only have access to Resolute.

    Even travelling by the lunar rift -- in Solace Bridge, from the main entrance to the rift is a direct path along a fairly short road guarded by only a few skeletons and slow-moving zombies, most of which you only have to fight one at a time and many of which you can just ignore. The rift is quick and easy to get to and a believable transportation option for new players. In Highvale, the road from the main entrance to the rift is much longer and requires you to fight your way through to it, past hordes of bandits and either elves or wildlife depending on which route you take. Although the enemies themselves aren't that strong, their sheer numbers will still make it a challenge for a low-level character -- not enough of a challenge to prevent you from using it at all, but enough of one that a character shouldn't be considering it as a regular transportation option. Especially when they haven't been to those other locations before and don't know what to expect when they arrive; is it going to be a peaceful city where you can sell off the loot that's already encumbering you just from the trip to the rift, or will it be another adventure area where you're attacked right off the bat?

    The same for Hidden Vale ... from what I gather, that's where new players used to start, early in the game's development? It feels like a great place for new players; lots of low-level adventure areas, easy movement between them, a major city that has pretty much everything you need right away, including a rift that's easy to get to and a boat from Kingsport to Brittany. Meanwhile, players starting on the Courage track are pretty much stuck in South Paladis until they either give up and break character or play the same few scenes over and over again until they're strong enough to handle the scary mountain passes. And playing the Hidden Vale scenes repeatedly isn't a problem, because they're the sorts of things (wildlife, undead) where artificial re-spawning isn't a problem, whereas in South Paladis, there's a serious "I already killed you, why are you back?" issue.

    I haven't tried Aerie yet, but it seems really clear that, despite my love for the monastery and the Highvale landscape, my new-player experience would have been much less frustrating and much more welcoming into multiple parts of the game if I had started on the Love track instead of Courage.
     
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  15. Bedawyn

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    I've heard some concerns elsewhere on the forums about why players aren't following the storyline. For me, this is very much part of the problems with the starting Courage track. From the beginning, I had a choice between following the storyline and staying in character. I got the amulets, wanted to deliver them, but the game sends us to the Outskirts. Once there, I wanted to help the refugees, finish the supply quest quickly, then get on to Resolute to deliver the amulets.

    I had NO interest at all in Esmeralda. My Truth character would have been all over her, the Love character would at least have listened and given her a chance, but the Courage character couldn't care less about what some crazy old lady with ghost stories has to say. It was very frustrating to find out that in order to get the starting deed, I HAD to break character and follow her plotline before I could leave for Resolute. I eventually did leave, before her quest was finished, because I couldn't justify leaving the amulets undelivered any longer -- but I also couldn't justify leaving the refugees with a bad guy in charge, so really I was forced to choose which way I was going to break character, but staying in character wasn't an option.

    Then I get to Resolute... and the knights are completely unsympathetic. The elves in Highvale are talking about how this was rightfully their land, the kobolds are minding their own business and just want to be left alone, and here are these knights in their fancy armor who (a) are obviously incompetent to protect people and apparently not trying real hard either, (b) not native to South Paladis, so WTF are they in charge here? (c) apparently loyal to this Oracle who made it clear from the beginning that she was Big Brother, and (d) cheerfully talking about genocide of the elves and bigotry against the kobolds. So, I'm supposed to side with these jerks WHY?

    And I get to Bridget, and her dialogue hints that she's going to send me off a quest to Grannus, so I bail on that conversation before I get the quest. I've had a "Continue talking to Bridget" item in my task log for several weeks now, and I've no intention of completing it anytime soon. First, it was because I had to get back to the Outskirts and finish that quest so I could get my deed (and save the refugees from a bad commander). But beyond that, I still have no idea how to GET to Norgaard! It would be different if there were a caravan or something, you'd think with all the Norgaardians in town there would be, but nope. And of course, since Grannus is king of the bigoted imperialistic jerks, why would I want to talk to him? And then there's Bridget herself -- a drunk whose apparently abandoned her responsibilities. She can get off her butt and deliver her own messages! The text gives me no reason at all to want to sympathize with or help her.

    I am planning to follow the storyline in Ardoris, and have temporarily bailed on that because it's trying to take me to an area that the journal says should be easy but that the map identifies as Tier 4 when I'm still struggling with Tier 2s. And I decided early on that I wanted to seek out the kobold-friendly brother and at least hear their side of the story; I'm guessing that ties in to the Aerie track. So I'm definitely not avoiding the story as a whole. But there's nothing I've seen so far that makes me want to continue dealing with the Knights of Norgaard, and lots of things that make me want to stay as far from the Oracle as possible. If they want people to play out the full story, maybe they shouldn't be front-loading the Courage track with jerks and other obstacles?
     
  16. Jaesun

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    You can now freely go through the passes. You no longer are forced to enter them. So feel free run all around Novia and explore!

    Tip: Drink a potion of Wolf Speed to run really fast on the overland map!
     
  17. Skye Azure

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    Hi Bedawyn,

    I am a relative Newbie in Shroud & have been playing for a few months.
    Although with the help of some old UO players/friends, we have managed to get my Shroud of the Avatar, & the advice given by many players in this great community & constant trawling of these forums, has been been a god send.
    I have googled this game to the moon & back & so much has changed from the many posts/pages I read. It seems to me, that there is so much old, historical info out there that does not seem to be relevant any more due to changes made in the monthly updates of this game.

    Me & my friends have chosen not to join a Guild, due to our sporadic playing & desire to adventure & combine our knowledge of things we have read, learned here on the forum & from other players & enjoy this World, as it was probably intended.... by chance... & learning from our mistakes & modifying our approach as to how to attack something, it has been an ongoing learning curve for all 3 of us, but also a great adventure to undertake together.

    You should definitely go to Aerie (& Ardoris) & talk to all of the NPC's there, to see if they offer you a quest series. Sometimes they will wave at your with a sparkly hand but sometimes, this only seems to happen, once you have talked to them & started their quest & need to go back to them.

    Be careful on your adventure in completing all of the Shroud quests, as sometimes it will lead you into a compulsory PVP zone, so it is best to know where you are going & what you need to do, so you can move quickly in those zones so as to not invite any PVP'ers to easily attack you if you don't want to PVP. I found a post here that was very useful to get us in & out of these zones quickly, without too much fear.
    Although, I will say, we never saw anyone in these zones, while we completed the necessary parts of the Shroud quests.

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...rse-guide-to-the-episode-1-main-quest.144686/

    Hope that link will help you as much as it did for us. :)
     
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  18. Skye Azure

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    On re-reading back on some of your posts, it seems that maybe you are a more experienced player due to playing the offline game, who is revisiting zones with a newbie character in the online World?
    If that is the case.... please disregard my pointless advice on how we journeyed through the quests to get our Shrouds.
    But I hope you manage to enjoy your exploration as much as we did!
     
  19. Bedawyn

    Bedawyn Avatar

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    No worries, @Deja Moo! I am still a newbie player, but stuck only offline, with three characters: one on the Courage track, one just a blacksmith, and the newest on the Love track. Being stuck offline does mean I don't have to worry about PVP areas! (If I were online, being forced by the storyline into a PVP area would have left me grumbling about the devs for weeks.) On the other hand, it also means I have no access to Potions of Wolf Speed, since none of my characters are alchemists! Your playstyle does seem more similar to mine; I want just enough spoilers to get past the obstacles that shouldn't really be there but are, but mostly I want to figure things out on my own while staying in character.

    I do tend to talk to all the NPCs as a matter of course (the one area I freely break character, I can't resist thinking "what will they say if I give this keyword?" even if my PC really wouldn't ask about that). But I've also got to the point of ignoring the sparkly hands -- too many NPCs will blue-wave at me, but not actually have anything useful to say (at least that I can discover with common-sense keywords). But since so many quest-givers will only respond to one specific non-common-sense keyword that you can only figure out from trawling the forums, who knows?
     
  20. Skye Azure

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    Oh sorry... I thought that you had crossed over to the online game (I never played the offline version)
    My advice (as newbie referred to playing the online game)
    I highly recommend that you give the online game a go. The Community is one of the most welcoming and helpful bunch I have ever met in any game :)

    Either way, I hope you find the answers to your questions and good luck in your adventures!