Not a big fan of the HEX system overhead map

No, this is a topic I feel passionate about, so I remember vividly Richard saying he was against dual scale until the team convinced him otherwise after much back and forth. It's out there somewhere in one of the video interviews or chats.

In fact, I found this quote, where the team even tried to convince him to instance housing!

Richard Garriott:
"Yes. Well, when I say zone, there’s two zoom levels of the zones; there’s indoor maps and scenario maps. What we’re not doing is, when you go inside, you get a building interior map. I love as close to monoscale as we can get, but we need to go to at least two. And while there are lots of team members that have tried to talk me into making the interior of a house separate from walking around the perimeter of a house, because it would save the development team more pain, it was just too much of a reality-breaker for me. It makes it too obvious it is a game, versus a real place."
From http://gameindustry.about.com/od/ga...f-the-Avatar-Selective-Multiplayer-Part-4.htm

 

I think it's very possible they could change directions. All it takes is the system to fail (as it has once already), their funding going flat (as is currently happening) and the continued voicing of concerns of people like us (whom I believe are a mostly silent majority) pointing out what we dislike about this game and why our friends aren't even giving it a chance. Richard Garriot also says in a lot of his video chats to be vocal about the things you don't like so they will be aware of it to help shape the direction of the game.

Despite a mostly enthusiastic community on these forums, there are far more on the outside put off by this game presently. I believe it's because the developers are catering to a small but vocal minority and avoiding listening to their own creative convictions as they should, which as I've mentioned previously will ultimately lead to a mediocre game due to lack of funding.

Yeah, the level designs so far are really lacking. Those artificial barriers are only going to multiply if they keep going in their current direction because it's a result of their current design philosophy.

 

Another quote, where Chris Spears acknowledges that the dual scale map breaks immersion, but justifies it once again with the notion of maximizing content. This is because, from all I have gathered, they are stuck in the mindset that they need to be on a tight budget.

Chris Spears:
"But that was one, even though we are really trying to pay attention to immersion and what that means to the players and what we can do to improve on that. That was one we had to give, just, accept we were going to break immersion for that just due to the reality of game development and maximize our content."
From http://www.thecaverns.net/Wordpress...tar-dev-chat-with-richard-garriott-and-tracy/

Once again, there's no theoretical reason SotA needs to be on a tight budget, and the only reason it is is that it's currently failing to appeal to a wider audience!

 

Painting the game into an ideological corner will only serve to limit its appeal to the greater gaming community.

Currently we have road scenes that are completely useless. I don't feel like I'm on a road; I feel like I'm in a box with invisible walls. On top of that we have a multitude of small villages to accommodate player housing that are superfluous for all but the owners of the plots contained within.

We need a monoscale world or we simply have a series of boxes connected by loading screens.

 

I think once we get the 3d map that will improve peoples perceptions of the dual scale map system greatly. Hopefully that will give a sense of real travel and exploration between hexes. As for player villages many of us agree they need something make them more interesting to make them something more then an area to place a house.

 

A lot of these arguements come down to a few here wanting UO2. It isn't just this feature they don't like it...they dislike anything that is different then UO did it. Argue you all you want about this feature but it does have advantages to the developers.

 

They need to make a game people will want to buy and play. Portalarium are not a bunch of indies developing their first game, they have other investors into the company that should be paying to make the game a winner they are the ones that will benefit from sales unless they are in it for a loss to set against paying taxes.

 

Nothing in this post challenges the concerns people have brought to this thread. You can't just wave your hand at these concerns and dismiss it as longing for "uo2."

 

They do need to make a game people want to buy and play; I think they are. I want to (and am) playing it. Yep, they are seasoned developers, and game designers. Ultimately that is the reason I support this. By the tone of your comment I can't help but think you have some negative feelings. For me, I invested in SotA with an open mind that the game might stimulate some, but not all, of my nostalgic ideals about what the Ultima series, and UO, meant to me many years ago. That said, I don't want the exact game I played then, I want a new game that is, as R. Garriott said, a spiritual successor. I'm glad I have some small ability to influence the direction the dev team takes, but I'm glad they are driving this ship.

From what I understand the investors they've had were in the earlier days of the company, when they were testing the waters with mobile and Facebook games. Aside from bootstrapping the company as it exists today, I'm not sure what their relationship is, or how much, if any, of that funding fed directed into SotA. I heard RG invested some of his own money in SotA. Also, RG mentioned they didn't want Portalarium to be tied to the requirements of a publisher. Sounds good to me. Have you heard differently?

I don't understand the motivation behind the tax comment. You're probably right, the company is likely not yet profitable, and for a startup you wouldn't want it to be, so operating at cost or at a loss is normal and expected at this stage.

 

I have also started to lose a bit of interest in SOTA, and it is mostly due to the overhead map. It seems to me that it might work in a Single player game, but simply does not belong in an MMO. I just don't think that I would ever come to enjoy such a feature, no matter how much they attempt to make it "fun".

I've played in the last few releases, but simply cannot bring myself to play for more than 30 minutes or so, and this is worrying to me. I think getting rid of the overhead map would bring SO much to the games atmosphere. Yes, it would be harder, cost more, and mean a lot more work. In the end, it would be much more beneficial for the longevity and interest in the game in my opinion.

Having an overhead map in an MMO for travelling might be unique and set the game apart, but does it do so in a positive way? I understand the technical benefits of using one, but from a gameplay perspective it becomes very limiting, claustrophobic, and doesn't add anything.

Just my 2 cents.

 

I'm not a big fan of the map in it's current clunky form, I'm undecided if it's going to be a game breaker. The main problems I see are:

1) Housing is effectively in a separate zone, exactly like LOTRO. It may be hosted on the same mega-server but at the end of the days it's instanced.

2) The hex zones seem to have limited entry and exit points. I don't want to waste my time finding the correct path out into the trees. I want to be able to leave the hex in any direction without hitting an invisible wall.

3) Loading times between zones are bit iffy. I accept we are in alpha but I worry that if you group with players with slow connections there will be a lot of waiting around idle (the bane of grouping in MMO's). PVP will take place at these crossover points as people dive backward and forward to escape.

4) Personally I don't want to learn a new language to play a game, please lose the runic names or at least give the option of having the text in someone's native language.

I don't hate the look of the map even in it's 2D format, it looks retro.

 

I think there is so much focus on stuff being "rare" and limited, however it feels a bit pre-mature to me. What is exactly the added value of having a lot in random_village #371, an instanced area where I only expect it's 60+ inhabitants to pass by once in a while? I do not think zoning into hundreds of similar-looking villages equals exploration. I know some people will do it trying to find that one merchant that sells really cheap, but I feel that someone with a lot in one of the few super-hubs will be smart enough to undercut prices too. I will admit that one of these villages might become such a hub for some reason, however there will still be hundreds that will look abandoned.

In UO you had huge and very ugly-looking concentrations of housing but I am thinking that concept delivered more fun in the end, also because it had grown naturally. There were themes, and different atmospheres and more or less dangerous areas. I am not sure if a world fragmented like sota will create a similar interesting backdrop, even though the housing itself and the graphics (imo) are much more beautiful.

Anyway, I could be wrong and all sorts of emergent gameplay could arise from this system, who knows?

 

I have contributed big $ so far. I would love to say I am as excited as the day I joined. However that is not how I feel. Yesterday I finished fighting the satyrs and wanted to go back to Owl's head. It took me 20 (no exaggeration) minutes to find the exit from the satyr hex. I can accept the fact that we are in alpha where crafting, combat, and etc. are at a beginning level. I can imagine the endpoints of the development of these systems. However the hex map, the enclosed hex play area with roads that curve you around in circles within that hex and the isolated boring housing areas leave me with no imagined good endpoint. I cannot see a way that the hex system as now envisioned can possibly work in multiplayer mode. I can see it in single player offline mode though, and am beginning to resign myself to having purchased a very expensive single player game.

That said, the game could very well be worth it. I think as a single player game this could indeed be a ground breaking story driven masterpiece. I was originally drawn to the game to play multiplayer, but without major changes, I am losing interest in that mode.

 

I'm seeing a lot of passionate, sensible, and constructive concerns here and I share in most of them. Sadly though, I fear it is far too late in the process for any sort of fundamental change in the very construct of the game. For all we know they have the entire world fleshed out already within the confines of the current system (Tracey let it slip that a certain city was "beautiful" in-game which suggests he'd already seen it).

In hindsight it might have been interesting to lobby for single scale VERY early on but that is an absolute impossibility now. I'd like to think we could talk them into at least a 1:1 relationship between the hexes, but like I said for all we know that could mean a complete (and equally impossible) redo.

 

Well said, but when it comes down to it, a lot of games decide to "Redo" their concept. I strongly believe that this game in its present state will be far, far too niche to garner any further interest in an additional FOUR episodes. That just seems completely unrealistic to me. Imagine raising another 4 million for the next episode when its taken so long to get to that stage with Episode 1. In the end, if Episode 1 does not become successful, (and I believe the overhead map will have a massive hand in determining that), then how will these episodes ever get funded? As it stands right now, this game is great for a roleplayer/crafter in my book, but that market is tiny.

That is why advocating for a return to the drawing board makes sense in my view. Yes, it needs extra funding. Yes, it needs more time. Is it not worth it though? If the overhead map is removed, and a return to the spirit of UO's open and alive world is one of the main priorities and goals, this game could foster a lot more interest than it currently has.

 

Sadly, I've been coming to that same sentiment myself. I keep saying, just because it got its KS (and subsequent funding), doesn't necessarily mean a runaway success. They need WAY more customers than the 30 something thousand they have now.

 

Exactly...if this game was advertised as UO 3D, with customizable housing, crafting, dungeons, the ability to do just about anything one can imagine, etc etc, it would be incredibly well received. (PVP system would probably need to be tweaked a little bit). Instead, we seem to be getting a game that seems to have devolved from UO which was launched 17 years ago.

 

Reasons for Dual-Scale (Hex based) map vs a single map by Chris Spears. Worth watching.

 

It seems more and more people also don't like the Hex System maybe they will read this thread and start pondering I hope or come up with another appealing alternative to rid the invisible walls and make the game fun .
I am hoping they have a bunch of hidden secret developments going on that will "WOW" us all not world of warcraft .

 

It's a good thing we are in pre-alpha then, a state that most people outside of a company never see - for that reason, they don't think it's good. It isn't even close to what the end game is going to be like. You can get an idea of the direction they are going. But all of the systems will be built upon, fixed up, added to, and more systems are being added. bugs squashed, game play changed, graphics adjusted, these are all parts of game development. There were a lot of threads early on talking about the graphics quality, many people claiming to be experienced in the gaming industry also claimed it was too late to improve the graphics. Yet here we are, just 3 or 4 releases later and it is much improved.